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Mr.TaterSalad

2020 NFL Draft Thread

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

i dont think tua gets to the lions.  i think he's going #2 to the redskins.

Normally I would say fine by me. But this is the regime, coaching staff and front office, that will do the dumbest thing ever and still take Okudah over Young. "Well we like what we saw on tape, we got our guy."

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17 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Normally I would say fine by me. But this is the regime, coaching staff and front office, that will do the dumbest thing ever and still take Okudah over Young. "Well we like what we saw on tape, we got our guy."

That would not be the dumbest thing ever. Both will grade very high. Sure, Young will likely grade a bit higher, but what do we know?

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We know that DE has a higher positional value than CB. We also know that we had the single worst pass rush in the league last season by a country mile and Chase Young is being touted as a better prospect than Nick and Joey Bosa, who are both top-level DE's.

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I would take Young for the same reasons, but Okudah is also a rare talent who fills a big need. On the other hand, cornerback is much deeper in this draft.

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40 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I can't wait until the Lions draft Chase Young and he becomes a huge bust.

i really think they'll take okudah over young.

  • Sad 1

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23 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

That would be such a Millen thing to do, in a win now mode take a #4 wide out

Disgree.  For one many pundits consider Jeudy to be the best wideout to come in the league since Julio 9 years ago.  If you can get that type of after trading down I think that is great.   There's no other players in say the pick 10ish  range that grade out like him.   I don't want to take a lesser player just cause it is perceived as a position of need.  If say Okudah or Simmons were still there after a trade down?  Sure, but in the scenario I was talking about I'm assuming they will be gone so we would be picking the second tier of guys.

Also we have no WR's signed past this year, I'm assuming Goloday will be but a duo of him and Jeudy with Hockensen being the big target could be lethal.   Finally the difference between this and Millen is that we have our QB, drafting playmakers without a guy to give it to them doesn't make much sense but that isn't the case now.  

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Disgree.  For one many pundits consider Jeudy to be the best wideout to come in the league since Julio 9 years ago.  If you can get that type of after trading down I think that is great.   There's no other players in say the pick 10ish  range that grade out like him.   I don't want to take a lesser player just cause it is perceived as a position of need.  If say Okudah or Simmons were still there after a trade down?  Sure, but in the scenario I was talking about I'm assuming they will be gone so we would be picking the second tier of guys.

Also we have no WR's signed past this year, I'm assuming Goloday will be but a duo of him and Jeudy with Hockensen being the big target could be lethal.   Finally the difference between this and Millen is that we have our QB, drafting playmakers without a guy to give it to them doesn't make much sense but that isn't the case now.  

It doesn't really matter how good he is in the future. They are in a win now mode and still have a bad defense. I'd rather pick Kinlaw over a guy who is going to be a WR #4 this year. 

And I'm not worried about the WR being unsigned past this year. They can always extend a guy or sign one of the 15 million WR on the market every year. 

And yes you can take a lesser player if is a position of need. This isn't baseball, they contribute from year 1. It be silly to ignore areas you need help for a guy who is going to be nothing more than a backup this year. And whatever guy you have graded around the 10 range, you're not gonna have Jeudy sitting there wither like a 96 grade and the next guy at a 79. Then sure, but in this case your gonna have them all graded around 92ish. 

I called it a Millen think to do because it is. Take something because something might happen in the future while ignoring what you need to help you win. 

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10 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

It doesn't really matter how good he is in the future. They are in a win now mode and still have a bad defense. I'd rather pick Kinlaw over a guy who is going to be a WR #4 this year. 

And I'm not worried about the WR being unsigned past this year. They can always extend a guy or sign one of the 15 million WR on the market every year. 

And yes you can take a lesser player if is a position of need. This isn't baseball, they contribute from year 1. It be silly to ignore areas you need help for a guy who is going to be nothing more than a backup this year. And whatever guy you have graded around the 10 range, you're not gonna have Jeudy sitting there wither like a 96 grade and the next guy at a 79. Then sure, but in this case your gonna have them all graded around 92ish. 

I called it a Millen think to do because it is. Take something because something might happen in the future while ignoring what you need to help you win. 

You shouldn't just be drafting just for next year and Jeudy would only be a number 4 on the preseason depth charts.    He would instantly become our best route runner and hands guy.  He would make everybody on the outside better and help Stafford by getting open early.  As good as Goloday and Jones are they need time to create seperation, Jeudy is so crisp he creates it right away.   

Also lets not pretend that this offense was great last year and doesn't need help.  Even with Stafford they had games where they disappeared for a half and OT,  scored only 13 in the home opener and only 1 TD against GB.   Is it better than the defense?  Of course but it isn't the 99 Rams or anything.  

 

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19 hours ago, Buddha said:

i really think they'll take okudah over young.

It would be a close call for me.  Both are rare players.  I don't think we'll have a choice, though.  I also like Brown.

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13 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Disgree.  For one many pundits consider Jeudy to be the best wideout to come in the league since Julio 9 years ago.  If you can get that type of after trading down I think that is great.   There's no other players in say the pick 10ish  range that grade out like him.   I don't want to take a lesser player just cause it is perceived as a position of need.  If say Okudah or Simmons were still there after a trade down?  Sure, but in the scenario I was talking about I'm assuming they will be gone so we would be picking the second tier of guys.

Also we have no WR's signed past this year, I'm assuming Goloday will be but a duo of him and Jeudy with Hockensen being the big target could be lethal.   Finally the difference between this and Millen is that we have our QB, drafting playmakers without a guy to give it to them doesn't make much sense but that isn't the case now.  

Why take a WR when we just took a generational pass catching Tight End last year. Hockenson will be a 70+ reception, 1,200 yard, 8-10 TE. When you draft the next Gronk, isn't that your Wideout right there?

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2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Why take a WR when we just took a generational pass catching Tight End last year. Hockenson will be a 70+ reception, 1,200 yard, 8-10 TE. When you draft the next Gronk, isn't that your Wideout right there?

And to say  "many pundits consider Jeudy to be the best wideout to come in the league since Julio 9 years ago", while that may be true, there are also many pundits that don't even consider him the best wideout in this draft class from his own school.

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34 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Why take a WR when we just took a generational pass catching Tight End last year. Hockenson will be a 70+ reception, 1,200 yard, 8-10 TE. When you draft the next Gronk, isn't that your Wideout right there?

Quinn hasn't drafted a WR higher than the late 3rd round so that is irrefutable proof he doesn't value the position and will never draft a WR in the first round.

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3 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Quinn hasn't drafted a WR higher than the late 3rd round so that is irrefutable proof he doesn't value the position and will never draft a WR in the first round.

Once Golladay developed and they signed Marvin Jones there was no need to take a WR in the first or second round. They've needed an Edge Rusher every single year Quinn and Patrica have been here but haven't taken one. They had the chance to take one last year and chose TE instead and then proceeded to end up with the worst pass rush and pressure rate in the league. It's clear Patrica places little to no value on getting after the QB and places a lower positional value on the edge than he does the defensive backfield. And again, don't bring up Flowers because he never was a pure edge rusher/pass rushing DE.

On the point of Hockenson though, if you're picking a TE as high as they chose him, he better be putting up numbers close to what I listed above.

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1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Once Golladay developed and they signed Marvin Jones there was no need to take a WR in the first or second round. They've needed an Edge Rusher every single year Quinn and Patrica have been here but haven't taken one. They had the chance to take one last year and chose TE instead and then proceeded to end up with the worst pass rush and pressure rate in the league. It's clear Patrica places little to no value on getting after the QB and places a lower positional value on the edge than he does the defensive backfield. And again, don't bring up Flowers because he never was a pure edge rusher/pass rushing DE.

On the point of Hockenson though, if you're picking a TE as high as they chose him, he better be putting up numbers close to what I listed above.

Gronkowski had 42 catches, 546 yards, and 10 TD his first season in the NFL so it looks like Hockenson is right on pace.

Quinn signed Flowers to a huge contract. He was billed as being one of the best at pressuring the QB even if the sack totals didn't add up.

Don't bring up Marvin Jones because he never was a pure #1 WR and the Lions needed a #1 WR after Calvin Johnson retired.

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the lions are from the patriots school of defense.  the ability to play coverage is valued more than the ability to rush the passer off the edge.  in fact, edge players who stay at home, contain the qb in the pocket, and protect the edge against the run are valued more than pure speed rushers.  

i dont know enough about chase young to say whether he's a great edge run defender and stay at home de in a 3-4 or if he's able to play outside rush linebacker in the lions 3-4 (which im pretty sure collins was signed to do), but to me all signs point to okudah as the pick.

thus guaranteeing that young becomes the next lawrence taylor.

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The Lions have done fairly well in recent memory with top 5 picks. Johnson, Stafford, and Suh were great picks. Ansah wasn't a bad pick. The busts that stand out to me in recent memory are Harrington and Charles Rogers.

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11 hours ago, Buddha said:

the lions are from the patriots school of defense.  the ability to play coverage is valued more than the ability to rush the passer off the edge.  in fact, edge players who stay at home, contain the qb in the pocket, and protect the edge against the run are valued more than pure speed rushers.  

i dont know enough about chase young to say whether he's a great edge run defender and stay at home de in a 3-4 or if he's able to play outside rush linebacker in the lions 3-4 (which im pretty sure collins was signed to do), but to me all signs point to okudah as the pick.

thus guaranteeing that young becomes the next lawrence taylor.

In a 3-4... why can't Collins and Young bookend?

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To me, the smart play is to take Young if he's available.

The dropoff from Young to a later round Edge is significantly higher than Okudah and a later round CB.

Just my 'pinion...

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The Draft I want to see:

1st: Chase Young

2nd: Jonathon Taylor (we'll see if he actually falls to the 2nd or not...50/50?) Dobbins and Akers would also be fine 2nd round choices.

3rd (A): Whoever falls to the 3rd between: A.J. Terrell, Bryce Hall, Trevon Diggs,  or maybe even Arnette (not certain why I'm so ambivalent here on which CB... but I am).

3rd (B): Robert Hunt, OG/RT.

4th: John Hightower, WR.

5th (A): Jalen Hurts, QB.

5th (B): Devin Asiasi, TE.

6th: Colby Parkinson, TE.

7th: Josh Metellus, S (Myles Dorn if Metellus doesn't make it this far...).

Despite some ambivalence in rounds two and three, I'm actually not targeting positions. I just like several RB's who look like they'll be available at the top of the 2nd, and am fine with several CB's where I think at least 1 or 2 will still be there at the top of the 3rd...

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8 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

In a 3-4... why can't Collins and Young bookend?

He would fill either Kennards old role, which obviously they plan to have Collins fill, or Flowers role. As a rookie he could back up both and work in sub packages.

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16 hours ago, 84 Lives!!! said:

The Draft I want to see:

1st: Chase Young

2nd: Jonathon Taylor (we'll see if he actually falls to the 2nd or not...50/50?) Dobbins and Akers would also be fine 2nd round choices.

3rd (A): Whoever falls to the 3rd between: A.J. Terrell, Bryce Hall, Trevon Diggs,  or maybe even Arnette (not certain why I'm so ambivalent here on which CB... but I am).

3rd (B): Robert Hunt, OG/RT.

4th: John Hightower, WR.

5th (A): Jalen Hurts, QB.

5th (B): Devin Asiasi, TE.

6th: Colby Parkinson, TE.

7th: Josh Metellus, S (Myles Dorn if Metellus doesn't make it this far...).

Despite some ambivalence in rounds two and three, I'm actually not targeting positions. I just like several RB's who look like they'll be available at the top of the 2nd, and am fine with several CB's where I think at least 1 or 2 will still be there at the top of the 3rd...

If you are interested in RB and you should be if you are the Lions.  I think they most likely pick one up in the mid rounds.

Quote

First round

None. Zilch. Nada. There is not a running back worthy of consideration for the Lions in the first round, not even a trade up to No. 32. Drafting a running back in the first round is wasteful, which is why most mock drafts these days don’t project a single RB to go to any team in the first round. There simply is not perceived value in taking one so high in the NFL anymore.

As a consequence of the widely-held belief, the top running backs all get pushed down and make the second and third rounds richer at RB.

Second round: Cam Akers, Florida State

In the unlikely event the Lions take a running back in the second round, there are some appealing options. The best value of those options would be Seminole sledgehammer Cam Akers.

Akers thrives on between-the-tackles runs but has the bounce and acceleration to make a cut and break it outside. His balance through contact and ability to maximize poorly-blocked runs are the best of the backs considered here. Akers is a decent receiver and pass protector, too. His significantly lower workload than Jonathan Taylor or J.K. Dobbins is appealing. Akers also has a higher rate of forcing missed tackles.

The 35th pick is too early for Akers — or any RB for the Lions, for that matter — but a trade bringing an extra pick later in the round would make the impressive 5-10, 217-pounder a good fit in Detroit.

Third round: Zack Moss, Utah

Moss is a good, old-fashioned slobberknocker between the tackles. At 5-9 and a powerful 223 pounds, Moss plays like a violent pinball on inside runs. But he has some nuance to his runs and can contribute as a receiver, too.

At the combine, Moss compared himself to Marshawn Lynch. It’s easy to see the similarities. Like Lynch, he runs with attitude and conviction, not afraid of contact. He’s not as top-end fast or quick laterally as Lynch was for Seattle, however. There are also fumble and injury concerns that come with Moss, which is why he’s not really a viable consideration above the third round.

Fourth round: A.J. Dillon, Boston College

Dillon is one of the three RBs in the draft class who meet all the athletic testing thresholds that Quinn has looked for, as detailed in the Quinn-Influenced Benchmarks (QIB) compiled by Lions Wire’s Erik Schlitt.

At Boston College, Dillon proved he can slam through a crease effectively. He’s very difficult to tackle with his blend of power, lower-body strength and impressive forward lean. Once he gets rolling forward, he stays north-south very effectively. His second-level speed and balance through contact are major assets.

Dillon doesn’t have much in the way of lateral wiggle and he’s not an asset in the passing game. A high workload (almost 850 carries in 3 years) and his physical style lead to long-term durability concerns, but in the fourth round it’s a perfectly acceptable risk for the Lions.

Fifth round: Darrynton Evans, Appalachian State

I recently profiled Evans and his strengths and weaknesses. He’s a personal favorite and this is the range where I prefer the Lions address the RB position. His ability to handle the full range of duties like Kerryon Johnson currently does for the Lions makes him a very good value and fit. Like Dillon, Evans is one of the three QIB-qualifying backs in this class.

Sixth round: James Robinson, Illinois State

Robinson was wildly productive for the Redbirds, showing a full range of skills at the FCS level. He’s more limited at what he offers to the NFL with his low top-end speed (4.64 in the 40). Robinson has really good vision and smart, quick reactions to defenders, able to set up blocks and string together moves.

One area where Robinson really shines is pass protection. For my money, he’s the best RB in class at blitz pickup and attacking pass rushers. He has soft hands and reliably makes the first tackler miss once he catches the ball.

Seventh round: LeVante Bellamy, Western Michigan

Bellamy thrives as a cutback runner who can instantly accelerate when he sees the hole. Though he’s small (5-9/192) he reliably finishes runs and can drop the shoulder at the second level. The ability to accelerate through contact is evident and makes arm tackles or dives at his feet look silly.

His combine 40 time of 4.5 was much slower than he consistently demonstrated for the Broncos. Bellamy changes gears well but too often stalls out waiting for the hole to develop. He does offer potential as a kick returner, too.

https://lionswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/08/lions-2020-nfl-draft-a-running-back-for-almost-every-round/5/

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No team past the Lions at #3 have reached out to Chase Young for pre-draft interviews. That tells me if he is there, the Lions are not planning on trading back.

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