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Mr.TaterSalad

2020 NFL Draft Thread

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With QB, you play either or. A DE may not be better than Flowers, but you can play two pass rushers at the same time. Finding pass rushers of Flowers caliber is easier than finding a QB of Stafford's caliber. Chances are the pass rusher will end up equal or better than Flowers. I don't see how it gives the team flexibility. Either the rookie starts and you pay $27 million to your backup QB, or you spent a top 10 pick on a backup QB. If the rookie QB is worth a king's ransom, that team would give the king's ransom on draft day and not after he's been a backup.

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2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

With QB, you play either or. A DE may not be better than Flowers, but you can play two pass rushers at the same time. Finding pass rushers of Flowers caliber is easier than finding a QB of Stafford's caliber. Chances are the pass rusher will end up equal or better than Flowers. I don't see how it gives the team flexibility. Either the rookie starts and you pay $27 million to your backup QB, or you spent a top 10 pick on a backup QB. If the rookie QB is worth a king's ransom, that team would give the king's ransom on draft day and not after he's been a backup.

I'm not advocating the QB replace Stafford(unless Stafford retires/is inffective going forward for whatever reason), I'm advocating picking them for not only an insurance policy but also maximizing the value in your pick.

Do I want to pick an inferior prospect because of need or do I want to take the potential generational QB?    If I knew 100% that Stafford was going to be fine the next 3-5 years sure I would pass but lets not pretend like Stafford is a sure thing.  Injury aside before this year he's only had sparring times where he was an elite QB, a solid QB and underappreciated by fans yes, but truly elite?  No .   And while I agree that the odds are unlikely either is as good of career as him there is also a chance that they are franchise altering QBs that are elite year after year.    Basically I think their talent would be too much to pass up if Young is gone and/or no other prospects really separate themselves from where they are at now.    But I do concede to your last point, I'm assuming we would get a good offer this year for the pick and trade it before we would draft one of them.  Unless of course something changes for the worse with Stafford from now until the draft. 

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The Packers had a generational QB in Brett Farve and then picked another generational QB in Aaron Rodgers to sit behind him and study. We are picking top 5, Chase Young is already gone, and one of Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert are sitting there, I am likely taking one of them. If we believe Burrow or Herbert to be not only one of the top QB choices of this draft, but players who could grow into elite-level QB's overall in the NFL, I don't think I will pass on that. If they develop and Stafford is hurt with the back injury, then you have your insurance policy. If they develop and Stafford continues to play at a high level, then he becomes your trade chip for a future 1st+.

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11 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The Packers had a generational QB in Brett Farve and then picked another generational QB in Aaron Rodgers to sit behind him and study. We are picking top 5, Chase Young is already gone, and one of Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert are sitting there, I am likely taking one of them. If we believe Burrow or Herbert to be not only one of the top QB choices of this draft, but players who could grow into elite-level QB's overall in the NFL, I don't think I will pass on that. If they develop and Stafford is hurt with the back injury, then you have your insurance policy. If they develop and Stafford continues to play at a high level, then he becomes your trade chip for a future 1st+.

Brett Favre was also entering his age 36 season. Rodgers was also a projected top 10 pick who fell to 24th. Why would a team trade a 1st+ for a backup QB? Why wouldn't they just do it on draft day? Who drafts a QB top 5 as a backup with the hopes of trading him later for more than a 1st?

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4 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

If Tua never got injured I would've been fine taking him or Burrow if Chase Young was gone by  our pick.   For starters we don't know what the future holds for Stafford, not just because of injuries but just in general.   Sure there are outliers like Brady, Brees, Manning etc. but generally guys get worse as they get older and the guys I listed were always known for being super accurate which is something that ages well, I don't think Stafford was ever known for his precision.  

Worst case scenario would be Stafford shows that he is completely healthy next year and continues to play at a high level and Tua/Burrow sits for a couple years in the "Aaron Rodgers" role and we either have our QB situation set for the next decade if we keep him or we have arguably the most sought after trade chip in football in Tua/Burrow a year or 2 from now.  

Of course this is all hypothetical cause with the Tua injury that option is out the window for me, I don't want to mess with a guy with that serious of hip injury.   

Edit: I should say that is also assuming no team would be willing to give us a ransom to trade up for our pick.   

In this new draft salary system it doesn’t make sense to pick a QB and not play him quickly.    You want to take advantage of the 5 year window where your QB isn’t eating up 15-20% of the cap by themself.   You can probably let him sit for a year but you’d be wasting a great opportunity by paying Stafford $30M and stashing a rookie 1st rounder on the bench.  when you could use all that extra Stafford money on multiple players.    

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I look at the Chargers and they are moving into a new stadium and struggling to get people to go to games. Rivers is likely gone. They will make a play for Brady but they could be the perfect trade partner of a team looking for a franchise QB.

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On 11/26/2019 at 12:50 PM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The Packers had a generational QB in Brett Farve and then picked another generational QB in Aaron Rodgers to sit behind him and study. We are picking top 5, Chase Young is already gone, and one of Joe Burrow or Justin Herbert are sitting there, I am likely taking one of them. If we believe Burrow or Herbert to be not only one of the top QB choices of this draft, but players who could grow into elite-level QB's overall in the NFL, I don't think I will pass on that. If they develop and Stafford is hurt with the back injury, then you have your insurance policy. If they develop and Stafford continues to play at a high level, then he becomes your trade chip for a future 1st+.

This would be fine if 

A) Stafford was 36

B) an injured QB is the only reason we are bad.

Neither of those is true 

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if burrows or herbert are there when we pick, the play if chase young is gone is to trade that pick for as many draft picks as you can get.

do not, under any circumstances, draft a qb #1 in this draft.  you have a franchise qb, what you dont have is a management group that can put a quality team around him.

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Giants are currently leading the Eagles.  Let's hope it ends up that way, considering NY just drafted Jones theyre not gonna be picking one this year so it would be nice to pass them in the draft to have a better chance at Young.  

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lions need to jump ahead of the fins for sure.

hopefully some team still loves tua and is willing to trade up with detroit (and not washington or arizona or the giants) to get him.

if not, dont be surprised if the lions take a defensive back.  if quinn and patricia are still in charge, they value dbs more than pure edge rushers.  and the lions really need corners.

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My early prediction is that they will take Isiah Simmons, Safety out of Clemson. Simmons is the kind of guy that can go in and outside the box and slide in as a LB if needed. He is a jack of all trades type Safety.

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48 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

My early prediction is that they will take Isiah Simmons, Safety out of Clemson. Simmons is the kind of guy that can go in and outside the box and slide in as a LB if needed. He is a jack of all trades type Safety.

i think thats a very real possibility.  i also think they might even take him over chase young or derrick brown.

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27 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think thats a very real possibility.  i also think they might even take him over chase young or derrick brown.

I wouldn't be shocked at all. I think last year they would have still taken Hockenson even if Josh Allen fell to them. To your earlier point, they have shown little value in getting a pure pass rusher. They have taken exactly 1 DE in Quinn's 4 years here in Austin Bryant. Even with the Flowers signing, his stats and play on the field never showcased him as a pure pass rusher ala a DeMarcus Lawrence type of player. They think they can scheme their way or whatever into a pass rush and that having more guys drop back in coverage will make up for the difference, which it hasn't.

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Wagner is gone and Decker will be playing out the last season of his rookie contract.  I think it will be OL again.   

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8 hours ago, MAROTH4MVP said:

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Giants losing means Young probably isn't happening for the Lions.

Chase Young doesn't fit the Rocket Science Defensive Scheme.  His skill-set isn't suited to dropping back into coverage on every play.

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3 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

Chase Young doesn't fit the Rocket Science Defensive Scheme.  His skill-set isn't suited to dropping back into coverage on every play.

There’s no scheme issues on this one.  Chase Young is the top pro prospect in this draft by a decent margin.  He will be at the top of the Lions board.   

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4 hours ago, Hongbit said:

There’s no scheme issues on this one.  Chase Young is the top pro prospect in this draft by a decent margin.  He will be at the top of the Lions board.   

i doubt it, but we'll never know because he'll be gone by the time the lions pick.

cb and ot have to be high on their list.  so of course they'll take a safety/lb.  in fairness, their linebackers suck too and simmons is a great prospect by all accounts.

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I won’t companion if it’s a LB.  They’ve needed one for a billions years and it’s a position that actually matters.

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1 minute ago, sagnam said:

I won’t companion if it’s a LB.  They’ve needed one for a billions years and it’s a position that actually matters.

theyve drafted linebackers high in the last few drafts.  davis is a first rounder and tavai a second.  jrm in the 4th.

its just that the ones theyve drafted havent been very good.

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

its just that the ones theyve drafted havent been very good.

Letting this FO run another draft will just mean one more year before there is any hope of the Lions being a good FB team. Then again, WTH, after 63 yrs what's one more?

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4 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Letting this FO run another draft will just mean one more year before there is any hope of the Lions being a good FB team. Then again, WTH, after 63 yrs what's one more?

64...

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16 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Wagner is gone and Decker will be playing out the last season of his rookie contract.  I think it will be OL again.   

So then we're probably looking at someone like Andrew Thomas, LT from Georgia. How exciting, Quinn's 3rd 1st round OL in 5 years of drafting. How much draft capital can you continue to use on one position just for it to continue to be an average line?

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5 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

So then we're probably looking at someone like Andrew Thomas from Georgia. How exciting, Quinn's 3rd 1st round Offensive Lineman in 4 years of drafting. How much draft capital can you continue to use on one position just for it to continue to be an average line?

another problem for this team is that they don't seem to be able to keep quality players. They seem to manage by the philosophy that you only need one of anything on a FB team.. Van Noy an effective player: gone. Reiff - effective player: gone, Diggs - effective player: gone. Even if you do draft well, and Quinn hasn't,  you well never get ahead if you keep hemorrhaging  good players at the other end of the roster.

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