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Chiefs @ Lions

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They should get smoked, but maybe not. I don't know what this team is yet. I thought the Eagles win was impressive, certainly more so than the one against San Diego. I still think we were the benefactor of seemingly half the Eagles team being banged up. All that said, I refuse to buy in to this team yet.

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31 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

They should get smoked, but maybe not. I don't know what this team is yet. I thought the Eagles win was impressive, certainly more so than the one against San Diego. I still think we were the benefactor of seemingly half the Eagles team being banged up. All that said, I refuse to buy in to this team yet.

That banged up Eagles team went into Green Bay on a short week and beat the Packers. I also think the Chargers are a better team than the Eagles. 

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

So Stafford is listed on the injury report as questionable for this game. 

this makes me sad.

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Yeah, the Stafford thing came out of nowhere. 

Did he injure his hip in practice, or trying for more kids?

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14 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Yeah, the Stafford thing came out of nowhere. 

Did he injure his hip in practice, or trying for more kids?

He fell getting out of the shower. Good think he had his life alert. He just got it when Taylor Decker returned to the lineup. 

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3 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

That banged up Eagles team went into Green Bay on a short week and beat the Packers. I also think the Chargers are a better team than the Eagles. 

Well, the Eagles did get some players back, both on defense and offense. And Jeffery being back was huge. But their backfield is pretty beat up.

The biggest injury, and the reason Green Bay lost, IMO, was the injury to Adams. He had over 100 yards receiving in the 1st quarter and probably would have helped the Packers in the Red Zone.

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Reminds me of the time when the Lions beat the Packers some 5 years ago.

The Lions knocked Rodgers out of the game early with a sack that injured him, then the explanation was the Lions only won because Rodgers was injured.  Yeah, *they* injured him.

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41 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Reminds me of the time when the Lions beat the Packers some 5 years ago.

The Lions knocked Rodgers out of the game early with a sack that injured him, then the explanation was the Lions only won because Rodgers was injured.  Yeah, *they* injured him.

Yep I remember that.  It's kinda like if you force a couple turnovers because of great defensive plays and people say things like "If (insert team) didn't turn it over twice the game would have been totally different." 

 

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Yep I remember that.  It's kinda like if you force a couple turnovers because of great defensive plays and people say things like "If (insert team) didn't turn it over twice the game would have been totally different." 

 

The difference is forced and unforced errors. Great defensive plays, like forcing a fumble or knocking the ball out of a receivers hands are one thing. That's skill, forcing an error. But a muffed punt or a dropped pass? That's just luck. But I don't see what that has to do with that Rodgers injury in the game being referred to. Injuries happen and it's mostly bad luck to the team that suffers them.

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20 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

The difference is forced and unforced errors. Great defensive plays, like forcing a fumble or knocking the ball out of a receivers hands are one thing. That's skill, forcing an error. But a muffed punt or a dropped pass? That's just luck. But I don't see what that has to do with that Rodgers injury in the game being referred to. Injuries happen and it's mostly bad luck to the team that suffers them.

The point was that the Lions forced the injury to Rodgers because of strong defensive play, just like how teams force turnovers, yet instead of giving credit to the team that forced them some people like to almost use it as a detriment to push their narrative that a team(in most cases on here the Lions) was fortunate.   

It's almost like Lions fans are conditioned to think that the opposition is supposed to play perfect.  In almost every game QBs miss receivers, receivers drop balls, teams commit penalties, miss kicks, have unforced errors etc.  it happens all the time but when teams do that against the Lions, it's all "well if this team didn't do this, this or this the Lions wouldn't have won", well yeah no crap, you can say the same thing about almost every team that wins every week.    In the NFL generally the team who commits fewer mistakes ends up winning so I really don't see the point in constantly having to point that out every week.   When the Lions lose cause they commit a bunch of penalties or drop passes you never hear people say the other team only won cause the Lions made mistakes, it's generally just accepted that the Lions were the worse team and that's it.  Why can't it be that way when the Lions are on the winning end?  

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44 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

The difference is forced and unforced errors. Great defensive plays, like forcing a fumble or knocking the ball out of a receivers hands are one thing. That's skill, forcing an error. But a muffed punt or a dropped pass? That's just luck. But I don't see what that has to do with that Rodgers injury in the game being referred to. Injuries happen and it's mostly bad luck to the team that suffers them.

I can’t wait until someone like Nate Silver can come up with a model that precisely determines the difference between forced and unforced errors, between skill and luck. 

Then, we won’t even have to watch the games, or even play them! We will just know the truth. 

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22 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Why can't it be that way when the Lions are on the winning end?  

You don’t get the benefit of the doubt when you haven’t won a playoff game in 28 years.  

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16 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

The point was that the Lions forced the injury to Rodgers because of strong defensive play, just like how teams force turnovers, yet instead of giving credit to the team that forced them some people like to almost use it as a detriment to push their narrative that a team(in most cases on here the Lions) was fortunate.   

It's almost like Lions fans are conditioned to think that the opposition is supposed to play perfect.  In almost every game QBs miss receivers, receivers drop balls, teams commit penalties, miss kicks, have unforced errors etc.  it happens all the time but when teams do that against the Lions, it's all "well if this team didn't do this, this or this the Lions wouldn't have won", well yeah no crap, you can say the same thing about almost every team that wins every week.    In the NFL generally the team who commits fewer mistakes ends up winning so I really don't see the point in constantly having to point that out every week.   When the Lions lose cause they commit a bunch of penalties or drop passes you never hear people say the other team only won cause the Lions made mistakes, it's generally just accepted that the Lions were the worse team and that's it.  Why can't it be that way when the Lions are on the winning end?  

I agree that good portion of football errors and especially penalties are exactly the result of players being on the losing end of battles against better players, though I also agree with Freak that I wouldn't try to extend that to injuries too much, which are more randomly distributed. Across the field in general, a  guy is just about as likely to get hurt on a play he makes (or would have made) as in one he doesn't. Maybe a little more connection with QBs but even there it's not hard to find a counter example - our own Matthew Stafford has gotten sacked and pursued a ton behind horrible O-Lines while being inured less than QBs that got pressured a lot less, whereas the point holds a lot better that a poor O-Line will lead directly to a lot of QB bad throws, strips, fumbles.

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On 9/26/2019 at 7:47 PM, lordstanley said:

If the Lions go 10-1-5 and the Packers go 12-4, who wins the division?

Ties are counted as half of a win and half of a loss in computing the percentage. So it would make us 12.5-3.5.

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

The point was that the Lions forced the injury to Rodgers because of strong defensive play, just like how teams force turnovers, yet instead of giving credit to the team that forced them some people like to almost use it as a detriment to push their narrative that a team(in most cases on here the Lions) was fortunate.   

It's almost like Lions fans are conditioned to think that the opposition is supposed to play perfect.  In almost every game QBs miss receivers, receivers drop balls, teams commit penalties, miss kicks, have unforced errors etc.  it happens all the time but when teams do that against the Lions, it's all "well if this team didn't do this, this or this the Lions wouldn't have won", well yeah no crap, you can say the same thing about almost every team that wins every week.    In the NFL generally the team who commits fewer mistakes ends up winning so I really don't see the point in constantly having to point that out every week.   When the Lions lose cause they commit a bunch of penalties or drop passes you never hear people say the other team only won cause the Lions made mistakes, it's generally just accepted that the Lions were the worse team and that's it.  Why can't it be that way when the Lions are on the winning end?  

But my point is that if we play a team that has multiple injuries at key positions, drop multiple easy passes and suffer multiple unforced errors and we win by a narrow margin, what happens when we play a team that doesn't have all these issues?  Do you really think that if both the Lions and Chiefs play their best game of the season,  the Lions would come out on top? The Lions only chance this week is if K.C. shoots themselves in the foot, over and over. Sad to say but they are a much better team. While I'll be rooting for the Lions, I have very low expectations. That way, if (when) we get hammered, I won't be too disappointed. 

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1 hour ago, Jason_R said:

I can’t wait until someone like Nate Silver can come up with a model that precisely determines the difference between forced and unforced errors, between skill and luck. 

Then, we won’t even have to watch the games, or even play them! We will just know the truth. 

A muffed punt or a dropped pass is an unforced error. A LB punching the ball out as a runner is going down is a forced error. Teams actually practice this, it's a skill part of the game. 

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4 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

But my point is that if we play a team that has multiple injuries at key positions, drop multiple easy passes and suffer multiple unforced errors and we win by a narrow margin, what happens when we play a team that doesn't have all these issues?

Maybe we never find out.

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If the Lions play a healthy team that executes their plays and does make unforced errors, then they will very likely lose.

That is true for almost all teams, though.

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15 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

Well, the Eagles did get some players back, both on defense and offense. And Jeffery being back was huge. But their backfield is pretty beat up.

The biggest injury, and the reason Green Bay lost, IMO, was the injury to Adams. He had over 100 yards receiving in the 1st quarter and probably would have helped the Packers in the Red Zone.

Jeffery had 3 catches for less than 40 yards.  

Keep spinning it.   It’s always the same. Lions win it’s because other team lost because “insert all excuses you’ve used here.”  Lions lose its because they are awful and good teams just fine a way to win, which is why they beat the lions.  

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22 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

A muffed punt or a dropped pass is an unforced error. A LB punching the ball out as a runner is going down is a forced error. Teams actually practice this, it's a skill part of the game. 

Everyone wants to talk about the dropped pass at the end of the game.  But why did he drop it?  The receiver alligator armed it because it looked like Melvin would get a piece.  Melvin was in position, and forced the receiver to anticipate a tip.  Melvin’s good position helped force the drop. But I know facts aren’t important.  It’s all luck and only luck. There is nothing else. 

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24 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

Jeffery had 3 catches for less than 40 yards.  

Keep spinning it.   It’s always the same. Lions win it’s because other team lost because “insert all excuses you’ve used here.”  Lions lose its because they are awful and good teams just fine a way to win, which is why they beat the lions.  

Wow. Taking "homer" to a whole new level.

Do you really think the Eagles played as good against the Lions as they did against Green Bay? Jeffery may have had limited catches but he was another quality player that had to be accounted for. And that was just a reply to MTB's remark. They got players back from injury that didn't play against us.      "That banged up Eagles team went into Green Bay on a short week and beat the Packers."   

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29 minutes ago, T&P_Fan said:

Everyone wants to talk about the dropped pass at the end of the game.  But why did he drop it?  The receiver alligator armed it because it looked like Melvin would get a piece.  Melvin was in position, and forced the receiver to anticipate a tip.  Melvin’s good position helped force the drop. But I know facts aren’t important.  It’s all luck and only luck. There is nothing else. 

No, that was skill. And the pick was skill. It's practiced every week, the tipped ball drill. What is luck is a muffed kickoff or punt. Or an easy catch that is just dropped. Green Bay had a couple of them, in the end zone. But, as a Lions fan, I'm thrilled to see them.

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