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2 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I suspect we've all had more than a few times where we overreacted to a Lions screw up... we're just lucky enough it wasn't caught on video.

We’re not the Dean of Admissions at an Ivy League institution of higher luuuurning. ?

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On 9/24/2019 at 4:03 PM, Scottwood said:

Just based on DVOA at football outsiders and home/road effects, I think the Lions would be projected to go around 10-5-1 at this point.  The next two games look like losses on paper.

I fully expect a win on Sunday.  The Lions will be touted as "the real deal" for beating KC, and doing it skillfully.  We will all start drinking the kool-aid.  The Lions will get a week off to rest up, repair, and prepare for a national game Monday night in Green Bay ready to show the NFL world that they've arrived... and they will lay just a massive egg on the field and be utterly embarrassed.  It's the most Lions thing to do.

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56 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I suspect we've all had more than a few times where we overreacted to a Lions screw up... we're just lucky enough it wasn't caught on video.

I don't like being judgmental towards another person, but here we go. 

I have never acted like that at a game.  And I've been watching the Lions for years.  The Lions.  The least successful NFL franchise during the course of my life (I am 45).  I've attended north of 50 games, possibly 100?

I understand getting upset.  I have anger issues.  I am so far from perfect it is embarrassing to me.

But that stuff is excusable only up until a point.  Seriously, how old is he?

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15 hours ago, sagnam said:

Philly only had 1 timeout left at this point.  If you call one here then that is calling it for them.  You make them use their last timeout here to severely limit their use of the middle of the field.

Philly had a 3rd and 13 at that point from their own 20 and enough time for the Lions to get the ball back and get into field goal range. Unless you REALLY don't trust your defense, why not call the timeout and keep the foot on the gas pedal instead of playing scared. Seriously, what's the chances of the Eagles converting there? They probably would have run a draw in that situation and were relieved that the Lions let the clock bleed out.

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Is there really much risk when the opposition has a 3rd and 13 at their own 20? I'm sure the Eagles were happier to get to the locker room at that point without any more damage being done.

It's not that big a deal but it's just another symptom of the Lions conservatism.

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I'm not saying it is rational, I'm saying Patricia probably thought the downside risk of the Eagles getting a late score and going into the locker-room positive was greater than the upside benefit of 3 or 7 more points.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I'm not saying it is rational, I'm saying Patricia probably thought the downside risk of the Eagles getting a late score and going into the locker-room positive was greater than the upside benefit of 3 or 7 more points.

And therein lies the problem.

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I don't disagree with the overall premise.

I just think it is as simple as he wanted to go into the locker-room up 10 rather than it being a case of not trusting his D, hence my comment.

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13 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I'm not saying it is rational, I'm saying Patricia probably thought the downside risk of the Eagles getting a late score and going into the locker-room positive was greater than the upside benefit of 3 or 7 more points.

I don't think you would find that many coaches who would take a time out in that clock situation when they had the ball coming back to them on the 2nd half kickoff. You are two possessions ahead and are already assured of getting the ball back, so the marginal value is to make sure your opponent doesn't have a chance to do anything more with their current possession.

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I don't think you would find many coaches who would take a time out in that clock situation when they had the ball coming back to them on the 2nd half kickoff. You are two possessions ahead and are already assured of getting the ball back, so the marginal value is to make sure your opponent doesn't have a chance to do anything more with their current possession.

It's also a pretty long shot that the Lions would score points. Philadelphia punts and the Lions get it around their 30 yard line with less than 40 seconds. I suppose Agnew could break another one although I believe Amendola was returning punts.

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17 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I don't think you would find that many coaches who would take a time out in that clock situation when they had the ball coming back to them on the 2nd half kickoff. You are two possessions ahead and are already assured of getting the ball back, so the marginal value is to make sure your opponent doesn't have a chance to do anything more with their current possession.

I bet you that a more aggressive coach would have called a timeout, McVay, Belichick, Payton, Rivera. The Lions had 3 and there was still 40 seconds left with the opposition deep in their own territory. The potential reward of a field goal at the end of the half outweighs the risk of giving up a 1st on 3rd and 13 IMO. Getting the ball first in the 2nd half shouldn't factor in. You should always push for more points if it's feasible.

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To me it is ALL about where the opponent is.  On their 24 yard line with 40+ seconds left.  Stop them again and take a TM (or not if they decide to throw it and miss) they are punting from their 10 yard line (24 minus the 15) with maybe 30 seconds left.  Even if the punter booms it and it goes 60 yards you only need about 35 yards for a long try with probably 4-5 plays to get there.  No need for a "hail mary" at that point.  You run the 2 minute drill, using the side lines, get within FG range and try a 45+ yard field goal to end the half getting the ball back in the thiiird.

You call a time out and they get a first down...so what?  They are not doing anything with it, but maybe running 1 more play before the half.  To me there is not a lot of downside to calling the time out there.

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3 hours ago, NYLion said:

I bet you that a more aggressive coach would have called a timeout, McVay, Belichick, Payton, Rivera. The Lions had 3 and there was still 40 seconds left with the opposition deep in their own territory. The potential reward of a field goal at the end of the half outweighs the risk of giving up a 1st on 3rd and 13 IMO. Getting the ball first in the 2nd half shouldn't factor in. You should always push for more points if it's feasible.

Lemme try something here...  Let's say it's 3rd and 13 with the Lions having the ball... just 40 seconds left, not very many TOs... and a long field to go.  Would you be happy if the opposing team gifted you a timeout in that situation?  Give you the chance to think about how you wanted to attack that 3rd and 13... let you save one of your TOs for if you got down the field and needed it to set the FG team?

I would have!

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The likelihood of either team getting points out of the exchange is low.  I am surprised as much is being made of this as has been.

I think both coaches were just ok going into the lockerroom, and I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with that.

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1 hour ago, RedRamage said:

Lemme try something here...  Let's say it's 3rd and 13 with the Lions having the ball... just 40 seconds left, not very many TOs... and a long field to go.  Would you be happy if the opposing team gifted you a timeout in that situation?  Give you the chance to think about how you wanted to attack that 3rd and 13... let you save one of your TOs for if you got down the field and needed it to set the FG team?

I would have!

No, I'd be happy if they let my team off the hook by not calling the timeout and letting them bleed the clock out.

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7 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I don't like being judgmental towards another person, but here we go. 

I have never acted like that at a game.  And I've been watching the Lions for years.  The Lions.  The least successful NFL franchise during the course of my life (I am 45).  I've attended north of 50 games, possibly 100?

I understand getting upset.  I have anger issues.  I am so far from perfect it is embarrassing to me.

But that stuff is excusable only up until a point.  Seriously, how old is he?

you told us youre a lions fan, no need to be redundant and tell us youre far from perfect...

it takes a special kind of masochist to follow this godforsaken franchise.

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I don't remember the situation exactly and I'm not singling out the Lions here cause all teams do it but if I'm gonna call out clock management/play calling it would be in the situation leading up to the 2 minute warning.

All teams do it but I hate when you have the lead and teams just run up the middle to force the opponent to use their timeouts instead of just calling it like  a normal series and go for the first down.   The reason being is teams have shown time and time again that timeouts aren't really that important when you are running a hurry up offense.   

If the team gets the ball with a minute left and no timeouts or 3 timeouts teams have shown that they can go the length the field in that time regardless,  in fact generally the timeouts end up benefiting the defense cause it gives them a breather. 

So I'd rather my team just try to get the first down and drive down the field as usual, instead of just playing to have the opposition waste their timeouts.   Of course I would be a more conservative with my passes but I still mix some in there instead of just essentially running 3 times and punting the ball back to them even if it meant them not using all their timeouts. 

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Eagles lead Packers 14-13 at Lambeau, 2 minutes left in 1st half.

Update:  Eagles lead Packers 21-13 at Lambeau, 1 minute left in 1st half.

Announcers speculating whether the Packers will kneel or try to advance with 59 seconds to go after the kickoff and no timeouts left.

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