Jump to content

IdahoBert

2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

I know karl didnt win with but he went specifically to the lakers to win a title. I dont think ray chose, he was traded wasnt here?, to go colorado just to win.

Not that wikipedia is the end all be all, but here you go:

Quote

With his career nearing an end and the team going in the wrong direction, Bourque requested a trade from the fading Bruins so he would have a chance to win the Stanley Cup.

 

Now, the footnote link to that is slightly different.

Quote

Although Boston had twice reached the final (1988 and 1990), the prize had eluded Bourque and the boys in Boston both times. When the opportunity arose to join the Colorado Avalanche at the trading deadline in March 2000, Bourque deliberated, then decided to join the Stanley Cup contenders.

I thought he was only in Colorado for the balance of his last season and they won that Cup.  But as it was, he was in Colorado for 1 1/2 seasons and they won the Cup in his full season in Denver.  I'm not puck head (feel free to replace the "p" if you would like), but I sort of remember this situation for the uniqueness of it. 

I guess you could toss Mark Grace into the pile with Malone and Borque, although the circumstances might be slightly different from one another.  A long standing successful career with one team and then at the tail end, a short stint with another team in a chance for the ultimate team championship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

I believe the mark of as successful team is being competitive every year and making the playoffs frequently.  The post-season is a crapshoot.  It's really fun to see your team win a championship, but I don't think losing the World Series breaks a great season.   

That's where I am as well.

Houston had a damn good season.  New York and Los Angeles did as well.  I can understand the disappointment in the end result, but ultimately they had very, very fine seasons.

And I know a lot of folks like to mock Atlanta for winning only one World Series amongst all of those playoff appearances, but I'll gladly take the playoff appearances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Casimir said:

So you are you saying you are fine with being in the playoffs?  And then whatever happens, happens?

yep

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When it comes to that kind of talk fans have two choices. Be happy about it or unhappy about it.  There’s nothing we can do to change the outcome.   Why choose to be unhappy?  It’s not like our input is requested or we affect the decisions.  We choose to be a fan of the team and they play the games and we decide what our expectations are. We aren’t raising kids here or managing employees.  We are observing independent activities.  It’s like going to the movies and expecting to every movie to be the best ever and if it’s not then it ruins are winter.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i dont know ray borque, but i know he played for the bruins and the avalanche and is therefore a terrible person.  sorry, thats just the way it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Oblong said:

When it comes to that kind of talk fans have two choices. Be happy about it or unhappy about it.  There’s nothing we can do to change the outcome.   Why choose to be unhappy?  It’s not like our input is requested or we affect the decisions.  We choose to be a fan of the team and they play the games and we decide what our expectations are. We aren’t raising kids here or managing employees.  We are observing independent activities.  It’s like going to the movies and expecting to every movie to be the best ever and if it’s not then it ruins are winter.  

But you do have to make a decision about your entertainment investment. A 500 ball club with some interesting players may still be entertaining enough for me to watch. A 400 team with a lot of promising new guys with high ceilings trying to find their way, ditto. But a team that is going to lose 2 out of every 3 with a cast of characters that will all like as not all be looking for minor league gigs for next year when the season ends? That is asking too much of my fandom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

But you do have to make a decision about your entertainment investment. A 500 ball club with some interesting players may still be entertaining enough for me to watch. A 400 team with a lot of promising new guys with high ceilings trying to find their way, ditto. But a team that is going to lose 2 out of every 3 with a cast of characters that will all like as not all be looking for minor league gigs for next year when the season ends? That is asking too much of my fandom.

Evidence doesn't support tthis claim. I don't know how many times I have to point it out. Whether your 2 games or 18 or 45 games below .500 ticket sales are about the same (over a long sample size).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Whether your 2 games or 18 or 45 games below .500 ticket sales are about the same (over a long sample size).

How long a sample size?  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Evidence doesn't support tthis claim. I don't know how many times I have to point it out. Whether your 2 games or 18 or 45 games below .500 ticket sales are about the same (over a long sample size).

I'm not attempting to speak for the public, just for myself.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

How long a sample size?  

 

 

27 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Evidence doesn't support tthis claim. I don't know how many times I have to point it out. Whether your 2 games or 18 or 45 games below .500 ticket sales are about the same (over a long sample size).

I am not doubting this, but I would like to see the study.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I'm not attempting to speak for the public, just for myself.

That is where I am at too.  The casual just wants to see a winner and they will leave as soon as they don't see their team in the hunt, but most of us in this forum are not casual.  Personally, I am going to be  more entertained by a 70 win team than a 50 win team, especially if they have some promising young talent.  A .500 club might be entertaining regardless of the roster makeup.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

But you do have to make a decision about your entertainment investment. A 500 ball club with some interesting players may still be entertaining enough for me to watch. A 400 team with a lot of promising new guys with high ceilings trying to find their way, ditto. But a team that is going to lose 2 out of every 3 with a cast of characters that will all like as not all be looking for minor league gigs for next year when the season ends? That is asking too much of my fandom.

I was referring to the Discussions about teams like Houston this year and the Braves of the 90s and fans being “ok” with that.   As if front offices have the ability to strategically build teams one way or another (do very well in regular season and suck in playoffs or just well enough to get in and get hot in the playoffs)

it’s the old talk radio stand by:   “Ownership doesn’t try because fans put up with it”. As if it’s my fault.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for my own entertainment the actual winning and losing by my team is just a portion of what I get out of the entire experience. I enjoy the camaraderie, being outside, being downtown, and watching the game itself.  I can get joy out of seeing a well executed 6-4-3 or clutch hit or big strikeout.  Not trying to go all Field of Dreams here but it is still fun. Sometimes it’s more fun at times like this because the riff raff is not there. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

You'd have a point...if he didnt win mvps and triple crowns at his current wait.

It's not like he was 210 when he did those things and let himself go.

I think he's a good bit heavier right now than he was in 2012...the man jiggles when he "runs" now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Oblong said:

As for my own entertainment the actual winning and losing by my team is just a portion of what I get out of the entire experience. I enjoy the camaraderie, being outside, being downtown, and watching the game itself.  I can get joy out of seeing a well executed 6-4-3 or clutch hit or big strikeout.  Not trying to go all Field of Dreams here but it is still fun. Sometimes it’s more fun at times like this because the riff raff is not there. 

Not saying I'd lose interest in Baseball, but I might well spend more of my time watching  other teams  play it. I think I followed the Dodgers more than the Tigers in the depths of the late 70's - and we weren't even this bad. This year I could see still buying  'walk up' tickets to some games based on who is pitching,  but probably zero on advanced buys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was a teenager in the 70's...1975 was brutal there was NOTHING about that team that was even remotely fun.  They touted guys like Danny Meyers, Leon Roberts and Vern Ruhle..but you didn't get the feeling that there was greatness there.  From 1976 on...things were different. The Bird, Rozema,  Morris, Jason Thompson, Kemp, Lou and Tram and Parrish started showing up and LeFlore established himself as an offensive threat.  That was a fun time to be a fan...Then they drafted Gibby and the Guts and the Glue of the Maize and Blue, Ricky Leach...that was something.  Then they shafted Less Moss and hired Sparky...you felt badly for the old Jughead...but c'mon...It's Sparky.  

 

Good Times...way more fun than this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Buddha said:

i dont know ray borque, but i know he played for the bruins and the avalanche and is therefore a terrible person.  sorry, thats just the way it is.

I’ve always admired your principles (when I agree with them).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Evidence doesn't support tthis claim. I don't know how many times I have to point it out. Whether your 2 games or 18 or 45 games below .500 ticket sales are about the same (over a long sample size).

I don’t know about this.  In previous seasons I’d watch as much of as many games as possible.  I’d record and start from the beginning.  Last season, not so much.  I’d check in on every game that I could, and I typically get a chance to every day, even if for only a little bit.  But I found myself checking on live more than before rather than starting from the beginning.  But, to each, their own, or something like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Evidence doesn't support tthis claim. I don't know how many times I have to point it out. Whether your 2 games or 18 or 45 games below .500 ticket sales are about the same (over a long sample size).

At face value, this statement is totally unfounded.There is not an ounce of evidence to support your assertion. If you have anything, I mean anything, that you have that could substantiate this claim, please share it with everyone. I would like to see where you draw this conclusion from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lei Pong said:

I was a teenager in the 70's...1975 was brutal there was NOTHING about that team that was even remotely fun.  They touted guys like Danny Meyers, Leon Roberts and Vern Ruhle..but you didn't get the feeling that there was greatness there.  From 1976 on...things were different. The Bird, Rozema,  Morris, Jason Thompson, Kemp, Lou and Tram and Parrish started showing up and LeFlore established himself as an offensive threat.  That was a fun time to be a fan...Then they drafted Gibby and the Guts and the Glue of the Maize and Blue, Ricky Leach...that was something.  Then they shafted Less Moss and hired Sparky...you felt badly for the old Jughead...but c'mon...It's Sparky.  

 

Good Times...way more fun than this

I agree with all of that

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read Fenech's article on Mientkiwicz and have decided that I won't take either his side or the Tigers. He is a meathead blowhard and the Tigers organization is such a muddled mess that there really isn't a winner.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Evidence doesn't support tthis claim. I don't know how many times I have to point it out. Whether your 2 games or 18 or 45 games below .500 ticket sales are about the same (over a long sample size).

I don't doubt you but I certainly respond differently. And as for the evidence, does it include successive terrible years? I could see attendance the same through one historically bad season. But what about the next year? I would think interest would drop off the longer the gutter-ball continues. And I think we all see that 2020 might be nearly as bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Buddha said:

i dont know ray borque, but i know he played for the bruins and the avalanche and is therefore a terrible person.  sorry, thats just the way it is.

Maybe I am misremembering but I swear that Boston actually had a parade for Borque winning in Colorado. 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, kdog said:

I read Fenech's article on Mientkiwicz and have decided that I won't take either his side or the Tigers. He is a meathead blowhard and the Tigers organization is such a muddled mess that there really isn't a winner.

yeah - you can read this either way, when a guy has done what he can do at AA and then can't get off the schnide at AAA maybe you want to look at the AAA manager. I agree Rogers was not ready, but Greiner's injury didn't leave them that much choice on that one - stuff happens.  I didn't see any problem with the timing of any of the other call-ups last season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...