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2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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2 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

If I were a player, I wouldn't care who I won a championship with.  

I cannot believe you actually wrote that!  

Miggy was fortunate to be on a World Championship team during his rookie season when he was a mere 20 years of age.  According to your comment, after Miggy retires he will not care that he never won another one.  

1 hour ago, Keepleyland2 said:

I'd think you'd care to a point. 

If you spent 15 years with one team and didn't win you'd be sad and then went and Karl Malone'd it.

Exactly!

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4 hours ago, tiger337 said:

But you compared him to Scherzer and Sanchez who had not won a championship before.  That's different than not winning with a given team.  Lots of great players have not won championships with a given team.  I am not going to feel bad for Cabrera for that reason.  

True, Max and Sanchez had not won a championship before ..and true, that is different than not winning with a given team.  But what I was actually attempting to relate is that Max and Sanchez may have been much more grateful after winning their championship this year because they may have believed they should have won one with the Tigers.  .. .. .. Miggy may also believe he should have won one with the Tigers. 

 I do not feel bad for Cabrera.  I do feel a bit bad for Tiger fans ..including all of us here on MTS.  I know that I had wanted them to win one ..and am disappointed (as a fan) that they did not.

And again, ..my "Too bad for Miggy" comment was more sarcasm than not.

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Miggy...I'm sure...knows enough about the game that he's capable of evaluating the talent and managerial acumen of those around him.  I'm sure he sees that the possibilities of winning anything here are well in the past and so very far away in the future.  All that's left are some personal goals, a whole lot of losses and quite a few paydays with a whole lot of zeros.  Couple that with the pain that accompanies his injuries and you have a situation that would make it difficult to be a good teammate...let alone a decent player.

His ONLY hope is to get serious about his fitness, drop 40-50lbs of lard...and he would still be a hefty 230lbs or so and hope that helps him become that .900+ OPS DH that might be an attractive trade target if the Tigers bit the bullet and kept some salary.

Personally...I think he's shot.  He could weigh 210lbs and it wouldn't matter.  I think he knows it's over and that's why he let himself go physically...but that's just my opinion.  I hope he proves me wrong....

 

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1 minute ago, Lei Pong said:

Miggy...I'm sure...knows enough about the game that he's capable of evaluating the talent and managerial acumen of those around him.  I'm sure he sees that the possibilities of winning anything here are well in the past and so very far away in the future.  All that's left are some personal goals, a whole lot of losses and quite a few paydays with a whole lot of zeros.  Couple that with the pain that accompanies his injuries and you have a situation that would make it difficult to be a good teammate...let alone a decent player.

His ONLY hope is to get serious about his fitness, drop 40-50lbs of lard...and he would still be a hefty 230lbs or so and hope that helps him become that .900+ OPS DH that might be an attractive trade target if the Tigers bit the bullet and kept some salary.

Personally...I think he's shot.  He could weigh 210lbs and it wouldn't matter.  I think he knows it's over and that's why he let himself go physically...but that's just my opinion.  I hope he proves me wrong....

 

I hope Miggy can regain and display that .900+ OPS again ..but like you, I think those days are gone.

Looking back, ..and other than JD Martinez ..it was basically the former Tiger pitchers ..JV, Porcello, Price, Max, and Anibal who have been major contributor's toward their respective team's World Championships. 

Truly sad the Tigers were unable to win a championship when most of those pitchers were with the team.  

At various times from 2011 thru 2014 ..the Tigers had JV, Miggy, Max, Porcello,  VMart, JPeralta, Anibal, JD, Kinsler, Hunter, AJax, Avila, Prince, Fister, Smyly, Price, Benoit, NickC, and Valverde.   A bit depressing that the Tigers were unable to build & win a Championship around them during their respective seasons.

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1 hour ago, Lei Pong said:

Miggy...I'm sure...knows enough about the game that he's capable of evaluating the talent and managerial acumen of those around him.  I'm sure he sees that the possibilities of winning anything here are well in the past and so very far away in the future.  All that's left are some personal goals, a whole lot of losses and quite a few paydays with a whole lot of zeros.  Couple that with the pain that accompanies his injuries and you have a situation that would make it difficult to be a good teammate...let alone a decent player.

His ONLY hope is to get serious about his fitness, drop 40-50lbs of lard...and he would still be a hefty 230lbs or so and hope that helps him become that .900+ OPS DH that might be an attractive trade target if the Tigers bit the bullet and kept some salary.

Personally...I think he's shot.  He could weigh 210lbs and it wouldn't matter.  I think he knows it's over and that's why he let himself go physically...but that's just my opinion.  I hope he proves me wrong...

Spot on....he's our Ryan Howard.

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1 hour ago, Tigrrfan said:

True, Max and Sanchez had not won a championship before ..and true, that is different than not winning with a given team.  But what I was actually attempting to relate is that Max and Sanchez may have been much more grateful after winning their championship this year because they may have believed they should have won one with the Tigers.  .. .. .. Miggy may also believe he should have won one with the Tigers. 

 I do not feel bad for Cabrera.  I do feel a bit bad for Tiger fans ..including all of us here on MTS.  I know that I had wanted them to win one ..and am disappointed (as a fan) that they did not.

And again, ..my "Too bad for Miggy" comment was more sarcasm than not.

 I'm probably a little weird, But I don't really feel that they didn't win a championship... I feel bad that they blew some opportunities near the tail end of Mike I's run ro keep the competitive play going, primarily because Mike I swapped out a good GM for a bad GM.   Both DD and AA made some bad decisions, but AA never found the nuggets or made fleece deals to the great advantage of the Tigers like DD did on a semi regular basis.

  I admit that I'm old fashioned, but I saw miggy as a personal recovery story at one point, a guy who seemed to be trying to put it together....but his continued bad personal decisions have manifested themselves in ways that have diluted my personal good feelings.  I would be happy if he could get himself on track personally and on the field, but as a realist I view his story as a cautionary tale of substance abuse and of self-destruction, despite the apparent successes and riches.  I feel bad for him for that reason and not because of any baseball-specific stuff.

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3 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

According to your comment, after Miggy retires he will not care that he never won another one.  

Not only that, I don't think he'll care which cap he'll wear in the Hall of Fame.  

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4 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

I'd think you'd care to a point. 

If you spent 15 years with one team and didn't win you'd be sad and then went and Karl Malone'd it.

I’m sorry, who did Karl Malone win it with?

Wouldn’t Ray Borque be a better example?

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3 hours ago, Lei Pong said:

Personally...I think he's shot.  He could weigh 210lbs and it wouldn't matter.  I think he knows it's over and that's why he let himself go physically...but that's just my opinion.  I hope he proves me wrong....

hard to say. I think the reflexes and pitch vision are still there sufficient to still be a very useful, if no longer great hitter, the question is can he get healthy enough to swing hard enough to put the ball back in the seats more often.  When the hitting eye is gone, there is no hope. If the reflexes are still there but the question is whether the body can function there might be some hope, depending on how good the docs are and how motivated the player is. But I have to say that I thought the most optimistic outcome coming out of last season is that there would have been some surgery to clean-up or improve the knee that could have helped. That fact that at this point there really doesn't appear to be any clinical help available make me think Cabrera's comeback odds are low.

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46 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

... I don't think he'll care which cap he'll wear in the Hall of Fame.  

Strawman...

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On 11/8/2019 at 7:37 AM, Shelton said:

I’m not really saying anything new here that people haven’t already said, but I just have so little interest in what this organization does this offseason. It’s all so pointless. Frankly, there is little they can do this offseason that will affect their ability to build a winner in the coming years. They can’t sign anyone. They can’t trade for anyone. They can’t accelerate the progression of their limited number of decent prospects. 
 

Once the season actually starts it may be mildly interesting to follow a few of the guys like Boyd and Norris to see if they can become tradeable assets. Maybe some of the borderline guys like niko and Lugo and jeimer and willi and reyes and JaCoby can prove to be second division regulars, but even that is doubtful. 
 

This whole thing is rotten.

I think this post is about as close to the word of God as you’re going to get on this issue. Ownership and management have effectively checkmated themselves. Pretty much every realistic move forward is useless.

I would just like to see them spend a little money to make this next season alone something other than a torment. But to hear them talk even that is off the table. 

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2 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

Not only that, I don't think he'll care which cap he'll wear in the Hall of Fame.  

Maybe Southern Cal's.  He should be a fan of Trojans.

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22 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Should we care if he cares?

Nobody cares.  Even Shelton don't care no more.  

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On 11/8/2019 at 9:37 AM, Shelton said:

I’m not really saying anything new here that people haven’t already said, but I just have so little interest in what this organization does this offseason. It’s all so pointless. Frankly, there is little they can do this offseason that will affect their ability to build a winner in the coming years. They can’t sign anyone. They can’t trade for anyone. They can’t accelerate the progression of their limited number of decent prospects. 
 

Once the season actually starts it may be mildly interesting to follow a few of the guys like Boyd and Norris to see if they can become tradeable assets. Maybe some of the borderline guys like niko and Lugo and jeimer and willi and reyes and JaCoby can prove to be second division regulars, but even that is doubtful. 
 

This whole thing is rotten.

I continue to be amazed at how little I care....its because of the current sad situation summed up here, and the lack of any clear path to success given the current farm system.

I will enjoy watching Manning and Mize to the extent that they are in Toledo.

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I tend to be too attached to any given Tigers team and struggle along with them during the lean years. But I know if next year is nearly as bad as 2019 I'll step back. Maybe I'll read a book. Maybe actually bathe. But I won't be watching them get outscored by 22 runs in a 3-game weekend sweep. 

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11 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Nobody cares.  Even Shelton don't care no more.  

I care, damnit.  And I'm on the bandwagon right now before everybody else when they start out 7-6 next season and tease us and everybody thinks, "wow, Gardenhire has figured out how to tell the pitchers to get outs and the batters to score runs and the fielders to catch and throw and now its playoffs baby!"

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15 hours ago, Casimir said:

I’m sorry, who did Karl Malone win it with?

Wouldn’t Ray Borque be a better example?

I know karl didnt win with but he went specifically to the lakers to win a title. I dont think ray chose, he was traded wasnt here?, to go colorado just to win.

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18 hours ago, Lei Pong said:

Miggy...I'm sure...knows enough about the game that he's capable of evaluating the talent and managerial acumen of those around him.  I'm sure he sees that the possibilities of winning anything here are well in the past and so very far away in the future.  All that's left are some personal goals, a whole lot of losses and quite a few paydays with a whole lot of zeros.  Couple that with the pain that accompanies his injuries and you have a situation that would make it difficult to be a good teammate...let alone a decent player.

His ONLY hope is to get serious about his fitness, drop 40-50lbs of lard...and he would still be a hefty 230lbs or so and hope that helps him become that .900+ OPS DH that might be an attractive trade target if the Tigers bit the bullet and kept some salary.

Personally...I think he's shot.  He could weigh 210lbs and it wouldn't matter.  I think he knows it's over and that's why he let himself go physically...but that's just my opinion.  I hope he proves me wrong....

 

You'd have a point...if he didnt win mvps and triple crowns at his current wait.

It's not like he was 210 when he did those things and let himself go.

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17 hours ago, sabretooth said:

 I'm probably a little weird, But I don't really feel that they didn't win a championship... I feel bad that they blew some opportunities near the tail end of Mike I's run ro keep the competitive play going, primarily because Mike I swapped out a good GM for a bad GM.   Both DD and AA made some bad decisions, but AA never found the nuggets or made fleece deals to the great advantage of the Tigers like DD did on a semi regular basis.

So you are you saying you are fine with being in the playoffs?  And then whatever happens, happens?

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4 minutes ago, Casimir said:

So you are you saying you are fine with being in the playoffs?  And then whatever happens, happens?

I believe the mark of as successful team is being competitive every year and making the playoffs frequently.  The post-season is a crapshoot.  It's really fun to see your team win a championship, but I don't think losing the World Series breaks a great season.   

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