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2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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On 11/3/2019 at 2:26 PM, bobrob2004 said:

The market clearly wasn't there for Harrison and Mercer eventually convinced his team to sign his best friend.  As it turned out, the market was right and Avila was wrong.

It wasn't a matter of Avila waiting out the market for him.  It's more Avila feeling sorry for one of his players' best friend.

Now, that's kind of mean to say about Al Avila, that he would throw a few million dollars at a player just because the guy was another player's friend. Maybe there's an actual business explanation for the signing, such as, Avila signed Harrison because he simply doesn't know how to probably value major league players in today's environment.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Marvin Miller absolutely should be in.

He was one of the most influential figures in the history of baseball.  He belongs in the HoF without a doubt.   I don't think they'll ever put him in there though.  

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14 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

He was one of the most influential figures in the history of baseball.  He belongs in the HoF without a doubt.   I don't think they'll ever put him in there though.  

now that it is in the players hands, I'll bet they do.  they know his significance.

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22 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Now, that's kind of mean to say about Al Avila, that he would throw a few million dollars at a player just because the guy was another player's friend. Maybe there's an actual business explanation for the signing, such as, Avila signed Harrison because he simply doesn't know how to probably value major league players in today's environment.

You are nicer than I.

I would say it is an unsubstantiated claim, and almost certainly BS.

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16 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

now that it is in the players hands, I'll bet they do.  they know his significance.

But I think some of the old timers who have a vote might still be resentful of modern players who are making way more than they did.  

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1 minute ago, tiger337 said:

But I think some of the old timers who have a vote might still be resentful of modern players who are making way more than they did.  

are there still guys who played before Curt Flood that are on this committee?

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we don’t know who will be voting yet.  The 16 member committee is announced later.  

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55 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

He was one of the most influential figures in the history of baseball.  He belongs in the HoF without a doubt.   I don't think they'll ever put him in there though.  

I would vote for each and every one of the 9 players on the ballot before I ever even thought about voting for Marvin Millier. 

I believe that Marvin Miller would not even be considered if it were not for Curt Flood and the subsequent lawsuits and negotiations that followed. 

Moreover, after the court decision(s) and negotiations that legally gave the players the right to become Free Agents ..I firmly believe nearly any competent economist or union chief or even lawyer could and would have done as much for the players as what Marvin Miller seems to be given credit for.  But .. that's just my own opinion. 

All that said ..I would hate for Lou Whitaker to not be voted in due solely to votes that Marvin Miller might have taken away from him.

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I once read that arbitration had a larger effect on player salaries than free agency...but I don't recall any of the research behind that statement, so who knows.   

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I've seen that too, and it's not unreasonable.  But guess who led the push that created salary arbitration.  I guess I disagree that any ol' exec could've accomplished what Miller did.  The players union certainly hasn't been as strong in the past few years.  Even if that were true, I still think he belongs -- it was Miller that lead the union, and not some other exec.  

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Oh yeah....I'd definitely put Miller in.  MLB players union is everything the NFL's union never was, unified and resolute.  I think Miller deserves major credit for helping players get their fair share

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52 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

I would vote for each and every one of the 9 players on the ballot before I ever even thought about voting for Marvin Millier. 

I believe that Marvin Miller would not even be considered if it were not for Curt Flood and the subsequent lawsuits and negotiations that followed. 

Moreover, after the court decision(s) and negotiations that legally gave the players the right to become Free Agents ..I firmly believe nearly any competent economist or union chief or even lawyer could and would have done as much for the players as what Marvin Miller seems to be given credit for.  But .. that's just my own opinion. 

All that said ..I would hate for Lou Whitaker to not be voted in due solely to votes that Marvin Miller might have taken away from him.

We can speculate whether another lawyer could have done the same thing as Miller, but Miller was the one who did it and it changed the game.  The players were actually very resistant to Miller at first.  He had to convince that it was worth fighting for what they deserved.  I do not think many lawyers could have done the job as effectively as Miller.  I would put Flood in there too.  

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Jose Abreu, Madison Bumgarner, Gerrit Cole, Josh Donaldson, Jake Odorizzi, Marcell Ozuna, Anthony Rendon, Will Smith (Giants), Stephen Strasburg, and Zack Wheeler all received qualifying offers.

Interesting that the Yankees didn't offer Didi Gregorious a QO though.   

 

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23 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Oh my goodness, where have you been?  

he agrees with me, so he's obviously been in school...

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3 hours ago, Lei Pong said:

Oh yeah....I'd definitely put Miller in.  MLB players union is everything the NFL's union never was, unified and resolute.  I think Miller deserves major credit for helping players get their fair share

So which of the 9 players would you put Miller ahead of?

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I think Miller should be in the HOF but not at the expense of a player. He definitely helped change the game although my only information on him comes from Ken Burns. I do recall when Flood went to court and when Messersmith and McNally became free agent. I remember some of the big early FA signings. Remember Wayne Garland? I also recall Bevacqua winning the bubble gum blowing contest and when my 3rd grade gym teacher miss Singer peed her pants.

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I think Tommy John is a very interesting case.  I would say he gets in.  His playing numbers get him into the conversation, but I think the surgery is noteworthy enough that it bumps him in.

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10 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

 

Jose Abreu, Madison Bumgarner, Gerrit Cole, Josh Donaldson, Jake Odorizzi, Marcell Ozuna, Anthony Rendon, Will Smith (Giants), Stephen Strasburg, and Zack Wheeler all received qualifying offers.

Interesting that the Yankees didn't offer Didi Gregorious a QO though.   

 

Maybe its just me, but Will Smith seems an odd QO choice.

I can understand the Yankees not offering to Gregorious.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How much credit should he get for the surgery?

Well, I wouldn't give him credit for performing it.

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3 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Maybe its just me, but Will Smith seems an odd QO choice.

I can understand the Yankees not offering to Gregorious.

Yeah for his sake he should probably take it cause he could be one of those guys that has a hard time getting a contract with a draft pick attached to him.

I can see the Yankees POV in thinking that Didi was coming off a down year recovering from TJ surgery so they may have thought he'd accept and try to rebuild his value next year but even if he did, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for them.    With him being the only good middle infielder available I think he would have declined though and took his chances in FA where he should have a big market.   

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The Braves turned down a $12M option on Julio Teheran.  His BB9 has climbed the past few seasons, which seems kind of odd for a kid in his late 20s.  The Tigers still need SP to bridge the gap between now and the Erie kids.  I wouldn't expect him to sign with the Tigers, I would imagine he goes elsewhere (Houston probably resurrects his career).  But he's probably a guy the Tigers should consider.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

How much credit should he get for the surgery?

It made him famous and it is the Hall of Fame.  I personally would not give him much credit for it.  He shouldn't get in just for that.  However, given that he was also a very good pitcher with some Hall of Fame credentials, I think the surgery becomes a factor in the final decision.

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7 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Well, I wouldn't give him credit for performing it.

He was the first to recover from it though and he did so quite well.  

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