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IdahoBert

2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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1 hour ago, Tigrrfan said:

IMHO ..both Didi Gregorius and Marcell Ozuna will both be declining by the time the Tigers are truly competitive again.

I do not want the Tigers to sign any FA to a long term contract ..not yet anyway.  I think it is important to see how the youngsters in the farm system develop?  Which ones will progress and which ones will not progress?  Only then will the team truly know which FA's will actually complement the talents of the youngsters.

If the Tigers have no realistic expectation to compete the next 2 years (they don't!) ..then I do not care if they lose 100 + games each of the next 2 seasons.  I would rather get a top 5 draft pick with a 60-102 season than a bottom 10 draft pick with a 72-90 season.  

If they cannot compete ..then might as well lose like losers.

 

I don't think anyone is saying long-term deals. I doubt any team is giving Didi a long term deal. If so, avoid. Just try to field a more competitive team. Try. Otherwise they really are tanking. 

How has attendance been for the Red Wings? The Illitch family owns 2 teams in the toilet

 

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The key is price. Al's been too anxious the past couple years and signed guys for too much money too quick (Ross, Mercer, Moore). He did wait 'til late for Harrison, and yes, that did not work out. But he didn't tie up much capital in Harrison.  He needs to be more patient and get bargains. Lots of 'em. Sign like 8 of these guys and see what sticks. Don't forget - he can trade any successes at the deadline for prospects.

Sign guys cheap. They won't be blocking anybody, they're cheap and they can be traded at the deadline.

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9 hours ago, tiger337 said:

 

The 2011-2014 teams were very good teams.  I just feel as if there was never one single season during that period that is etched in my memory.    

The Cy Young and MVP JV season? Or the Cabrera Triple Crown and MVP season? Those were both very memorable for me.

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2 hours ago, Chili Mac Davis said:

The key is price. Al's been too anxious the past couple years and signed guys for too much money too quick (Ross, Mercer, Moore). He did wait 'til late for Harrison, and yes, that did not work out. But he didn't tie up much capital in Harrison.  He needs to be more patient and get bargains. Lots of 'em. Sign like 8 of these guys and see what sticks. Don't forget - he can trade any successes at the deadline for prospects.

Sign guys cheap. They won't be blocking anybody, they're cheap and they can be traded at the deadline.

 

I'd like to see that too. I've had mlb tv for a decade and this past year was the first I started passing on some games. If diehards get bored with the team then most other fans are already there. If they start out terrible Illitch will have to tolerate much worse of a hit at the gate. They can continue the rebuild, not block anyone, and field a team that isn't an historically bad team. I'm probably just being impatient. The Tigers have been a huge part of my life for nearly 50 years. I just can't get excited to watch Brandon Dixon bat, and Shep get all demonstrative when he does.

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1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

The Cy Young and MVP JV season? Or the Cabrera Triple Crown and MVP season? Those were both very memorable for me.

Those were great individual seasons which I love.  That is one thing that team had that the 80s team did not.  They had more stars and great individual seasons.    

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

Those were great individual seasons which I love.  That is one thing that team had that the 80s team did not.  They had more stars and great individual seasons.    

They had Rusty Kuntz

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14 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

I do not want the Tigers to sign any FA to a long term contract ..not yet anyway.  I think it is important to see how the youngsters in the farm system develop?  Which ones will progress and which ones will not progress?  Only then will the team truly know which FA's will actually complement the talents of the youngsters.

If the Tigers have no realistic expectation to compete the next 2 years (they don't!) ..then I do not care if they lose 100 + games each of the next 2 seasons.  I would rather get a top 5 draft pick with a 60-102 season than a bottom 10 draft pick with a 72-90 season.  

If they cannot compete ..then might as well lose like losers.

I'm kind of in this camp as well.  I don't mind them sifting through the younger players that they have around the top end of the organization.  I don't hold much hope for guys with MLB / AAA experience, at least as far as being pieces to build around.  Guys like CastroW or Reyes might eventually be an everyday part of the next playoff team, but they won't be driving forces on a team.

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12 hours ago, Chili Mac Davis said:

The key is price. Al's been too anxious the past couple years and signed guys for too much money too quick (Ross, Mercer, Moore). He did wait 'til late for Harrison, and yes, that did not work out. But he didn't tie up much capital in Harrison.  He needs to be more patient and get bargains. Lots of 'em. Sign like 8 of these guys and see what sticks. Don't forget - he can trade any successes at the deadline for prospects.

Sign guys cheap. They won't be blocking anybody, they're cheap and they can be traded at the deadline.

I don't know if that is true.  Results notwithstanding, if Harrison was on their radar and they got him as late as they did, clearly his demand was down, at least with respect to what he was looking for.

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Any chance this team signs at least ONE position player that could start for another team?

Are they satisfied with another 50 wins or fewer? 

I am very angry as a fan of this team.   I know the whole tanking thing is a strategy but Al has been on the job for far too long for this to be where we are now.  

We talk about the 5 big arms we have in Manning, Mize, Burrows, Faedo and Skubal  (I am not expecting to ever see Franklin Perez in the majors)...........If 2 of those guys make an impact at all it would be about on par with prospects panning out.   That's all we've really got.   

I really want Illitch to sell the team and everyone to be out.   Everyone (sorry Gardy).   

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injuries to miggy at the end of the season/playoffs killed us in 2013.

and jim leyland's in game management.

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Any chance this team signs at least ONE position player that could start for another team?

Are they satisfied with another 50 wins or fewer? 

I am very angry as a fan of this team.   

Right now they are saying they will not do that. They are completely satisfied with fielding yet again a historically deficient AAAA team to reap the rewards of can’t miss prospects because it’s easier than developing players the way other teams do.

As it stands this club was the father’s fetish and is something the rest of the family is not into. It’s not even one of those noblesse oblige “inferred responsibilities” where the privileged act with generosity towards the less privileged. They don’t believe in giving us a decent team — even a watchable team — if it costs too much or violates some template of “prudence” that works for any other “holding.“

Even the Roman Empire in its decline offered “bread and circuses“ to appease the masses. The heirs of Ilitch are not only skimping on bread, they’ve given up on the circus too.

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Seems like some here are patient with the process and some of us growing restless. The draft is a part of the equation, and yes, I agree it doesn't make sense to sign someone to a huge, long deal yet. But I have no interest in watching the Tigers get outscored by the Indians 27-4 in a 3 game sweep next season. I have better things to do. God forbid, what if Mize truly is injury prone. Are people willing to wait another 5 years for some of the 16-17 year olds to see if they pan out? And what if they don't? Wait 10 years? I think they need to put a somewhat better product on the field next year. Instill some confidence in the fan base. Or wake me up in 5 years and hopefully this plan works out.

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If their plan is to alienate people to the point where casual fans won’t want to see a bad team in a game that takes 4 hours to complete and diehard fans find their attraction to the club waning, then it’s working. 

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I know that drawing big time free agents to Detroit is a moot point. Not only is ownership unwilling to do that at this time, but  I don’t think it’s even theoretically possible to draw high caliber players into a franchise where they would be the sole good player on a team vastly inferior to others on purpose when there are better alternatives  

Maggs and Pudge came here, besides money I think, because Mike promised them they wouldn’t be the only one’s  That’s not a promise that can be made now. The well has been poisoned  

And they’re not going to even get into the mix to purchase the services of solid but not star quality position players. 

I think we’re screwed coming and going on this one and we just have to roll the dice and hope that our development system can actually develop some players and we can draft some can’t miss guys.

This could take years.  I’m honestly not sure it’s worth caring about anymore.

 

 

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2 hours ago, leflore said:

I think they need to put a somewhat better product on the field next year. Instill some confidence in the fan base. 

Except there is no evidence to support this idea that a 72 win team installs confidence over a 58 win team. There will still be plenty of whining -- seriously even when they are good. Go back and a look at a post in 2014 where we're all whining about the bench-- and ticket sales don't change whether your one game or 50 games below .500. 

In the last decade, they had a winning season, 5 90 loss seasons and the rest at 80 some. They signed a massive free agent last year. You know what their attendance has been each year? About 2.2 million give or take. 

Texas lost 84 games last year and 95 the year before. Attendance? 2.1 million each year. They did see a massive spike when the team when in the playoffs. 

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I am firmly in the impatient camp. This team needs a quick infusion of talent. We should be all over the San Diego padres this winter. Their owner is publicly complaining. As someone here on the board posted earlier we can go get Myers who SD would love to unload for salary relief. But we should expand that into a  potential multi prospect haul by not just taking Myers salary but offering Boyd and Jimenez in the deal. Maybe add Goodrum for their 2b. We should target 2b Urias , SS Abrams, CF Trammell and C Mejia. Urias and Meija have struggled out of the gate at the MLB but remain talented players and the other two are tough gets but SD is set at SS. 

SD would have $$$ free to go for Cole/Strasburg and one of them with Boyd gives them a big boost now and we just might get 3 to 4 up the middle players for our future. Plus when Myers contract is up Miggy will only have one year left, our stud minor league pitchers will have a couple years at the MLB level under their belts and we can hit free agency hard. Plus we get better starting next year.

We need lots of talent and we need to spend to get it. Its time to get BOLD.

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28 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

I am firmly in the impatient camp. This team needs a quick infusion of talent. We should be all over the San Diego padres this winter. Their owner is publicly complaining. As someone here on the board posted earlier we can go get Myers who SD would love to unload for salary relief. But we should expand that into a  potential multi prospect haul by not just taking Myers salary but offering Boyd and Jimenez in the deal. Maybe add Goodrum for their 2b. We should target 2b Urias , SS Abrams, CF Trammell and C Mejia. Urias and Meija have struggled out of the gate at the MLB but remain talented players and the other two are tough gets but SD is set at SS. 

SD would have $$$ free to go for Cole/Strasburg and one of them with Boyd gives them a big boost now and we just might get 3 to 4 up the middle players for our future. Plus when Myers contract is up Miggy will only have one year left, our stud minor league pitchers will have a couple years at the MLB level under their belts and we can hit free agency hard. Plus we get better starting next year.

We need lots of talent and we need to spend to get it. Its time to get BOLD.

Jimenez probably doesn’t have much trade value right now.

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1 hour ago, IdahoBert said:

 I’m honestly not sure it’s worth caring about anymore.

 

 

Probably not, but be honest, you were never here for the Tigers anyway, it was all about the morans.

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4 hours ago, socaltiger said:

I am firmly in the impatient camp. This team needs a quick infusion of talent. We should be all over the San Diego padres this winter. Their owner is publicly complaining. As someone here on the board posted earlier we can go get Myers who SD would love to unload for salary relief. But we should expand that into a  potential multi prospect haul by not just taking Myers salary but offering Boyd and Jimenez in the deal. Maybe add Goodrum for their 2b. We should target 2b Urias , SS Abrams, CF Trammell and C Mejia. Urias and Meija have struggled out of the gate at the MLB but remain talented players and the other two are tough gets but SD is set at SS. 

Your kinda all over hte place here. So we should trade for Myers -- who is bad with a contract nobody wanted -- and give up prospects? But then we should add our better players to the deal for some of their prospects/Major league talent? Then maybe throw in Goodrum to play a position they already have 4 people better than him at?

Then you say we should target a guy like Abrhams who is further away than Greene, but your in the inpatient camp?

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I don't get depressed about how bad the major league team is, that is cooked into the process for the foreseeable future. What I find depressing is how little the position players in the MiLB system are showing. A few of the 2019 draftee have gotten off to decent starts, led by Greene, but too few guys  from Avila's prior position player drafts are showing much of anything.

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7 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Except there is no evidence to support this idea that a 72 win team installs confidence over a 58 win team. There will still be plenty of whining -- seriously even when they are good. Go back and a look at a post in 2014 where we're all whining about the bench-- and ticket sales don't change whether your one game or 50 games below .500. 

In the last decade, they had a winning season, 5 90 loss seasons and the rest at 80 some. They signed a massive free agent last year. You know what their attendance has been each year? About 2.2 million give or take. 

Texas lost 84 games last year and 95 the year before. Attendance? 2.1 million each year. They did see a massive spike when the team when in the playoffs. 

So I will selfishly say I want to see a better product. It will influence me. The Tigers were outscored by 333 runs. 2 full runs per game. That's .5 runs worse than #29 Baltimore, and .9 runs worse than #28 Miami. Detroit was head and shoulders (or feet and behind) worse than any other team in baseball. And Toledo is bad. We know that attendance is down over most of baseball, well mlb tv will probably lose at lease 1 subscription if the Tigers don't upgrade a couple of positions. I may purchase it at the all star break if it looks like some of the Erie boys will be heading north. I'd rather the team be mildly competitive than historically bad again.

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10 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

If their plan is to alienate people to the point where casual fans won’t want to see a bad team in a game that takes 4 hours to complete and diehard fans find their attraction to the club waning, then it’s working. 

It is working great.  I keep close track of what's going on with the roster and statistics and everything, but it's mostly out of habit.  I really don't care about the games anymore because they seem pointless.  In a way, it is healthy because I am doing other things with my life, but it feels strange to be so disinterested in something that has always been a big part of my life.  

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

It is working great.  I keep close track of what's going on with the roster and statistics and everything, but it's mostly out of habit.  I really don't care about the games anymore because they seem pointless.  In a way, it is healthy because I am doing other things with my life, but it feels strange to be so disinterested in something that has always been a big part of my life.  

You ARE disinterested. Season's been over for a month now, bud. There haven't been any games lately...

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10 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Your kinda all over hte place here. So we should trade for Myers -- who is bad with a contract nobody wanted -- and give up prospects? But then we should add our better players to the deal for some of their prospects/Major league talent? Then maybe throw in Goodrum to play a position they already have 4 people better than him at?

Then you say we should target a guy like Abrhams who is further away than Greene, but your in the inpatient camp?

I am not saying give up prospects but rather buy them by taking on Myers contract and doubling down by trading Boyd. I don't think Boyd or taking Myers contract alone nets us Urias,Trammell, Abrams and Meija but maybe the combination does. Jimenez and Goodrum are just random add ons to sweeten the deal and could be someone else if needed. Those four might net us C,SS,2B and CF for the next 6 years and are better than what we have anywhere in the system. Myers is bad but does have some power and him, Urias and Meija could play in 2020 with Abrams and Trammell arriving in a couple years with Paredas and Greene. Add in Mize, Manning and Skubal and we could be pretty decent. 

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