Jump to content

IdahoBert

2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It may make less sense than your crazy conspiracy that the reporters and the org concocted the episode to protect Osuna and the integrity of the World Series, and theory was ****ing bananas.

Reporters as a group just don't make snide comments during interviews / in the clubhouse.  It isn't talk radio.  It isn't even really a conversation.  Basically one reporter asks a question and they record the athlete's quote, then another person asks a question, typically building off of the previous response, and they then quietly record the quote, and so on.  It isn't a discourse where reporters offer their opinions.  Nobody cares what their opinion is in that environment.  What you described is what gets your press pass revoked.

Besides, as Shelton pointed out, the exchange has been pretty well described and corroborated.  Not sure why there is presumed to be some incendiary comment that brought the thing on.  Surely that would have come out by now

Of course they wouldn't make a snide comment directly during an interview. That would be ****ing bananas, or in more technical terms, professional malpractice. If such a thing was said, I would think it was just reporters talking among themselves and being overheard.

I don't necessarily think that "surely" would have come out by now. Apstein was part of the group that might have said something like that, if not saying it herself, so no way would she write that part into the story. She went right into "psychotic guy went off on us out of nowhere for no reason and we were frightened out of our wits". Maybe that makes sense to you, and that's OK. It just doesn't to me. I know that's exactly how Apstein reported it, but she herself is central to the story, and as a person with interest, she's motivated to affix her halo firmly in it.

So why isn't someone offering a counter account? Maybe it's because publicly arguing with an aggrieved party on this exact issue about the details is a losing proposition. The Astros already floated an initial statement calling her account into question, and that landed with a thud. There's no there there for them to keep trying, so they issue the apology instead to hasten the story's demise. And in the interest of professional collegiality, no way is another reporter going to counter what she writes, because they'd be exiled to the island of misfit toys. So unless someone breaks ranks, her story stands.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Not buying, chas.

That's fine. I'm just speculating here. So are you. We simply disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Shelton said:

I can’t tell if this means that you think a psychotic episode is extremely unlikely or you think that your new theory is fairly likely. 
 

“psychotic episode” doesn’t seem all that unlikely to me. It seems quite plausible that Taubman felt like he has had to defend and justify having osuna, or at the very least has had to stand idly by while this particular media member kept reminding people that osuna is a piece of garbage. It’s understandable that he might feel like the continued focus on osuna’s past has been unfair or overblown or whatever. And when it comes from a specific person over and over, it’s understandable that he might have that person in his crosshairs. Couple that with an emotional night (in which osuna played a substantial/negative role), likely including alcohol, and a celebratory atmosphere, and I could see pretty easily how his emotions got the best of him and he lashed out at the person that had been grating on him and/or the org. 

In short, Taubman didn’t like that reporter and her past actions, and he couldn’t control his emotions and targeted her. 

Speculative details aside, it's makes more sense to me that he was triggered with the mention of Osuna somehow then he went off with Osuna not even being mentioned.

However, if the latter is true, as you believe, then the Astros need to strongly reconsider the hire, because he has now established a track record of psychotic outbursts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Speculative details aside, it's makes more sense to me that he was triggered with the mention of Osuna somehow then he went off with Osuna not even being mentioned.

However, if the latter is true, as you believe, then the Astros need to strongly reconsider the hire, because he has now established a track record of psychotic outbursts.

Couldn’t he simply have been triggered by the presence of the reporter that has made a habit of criticizing osuna and/or the Astros?

according to the reports, she had arrived late to The Astros clubhouse after having covered the Yankees postgame. 
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Speculative details aside, it's makes more sense to me that he was triggered with the mention of Osuna somehow then he went off with Osuna not even being mentioned.

However, if the latter is true, as you believe, then the Astros need to strongly reconsider the hire, because he has now established a track record of psychotic outbursts.

again.... witnesses say that Osuna wasn't mentioned or a topic of conversation at that time.  It was an unprovoked outburst.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Couldn’t he simply have been triggered by the presence of the reporter that has made a habit of criticizing osuna and/or the Astros?

according to the reports, she had arrived late to The Astros clubhouse after having covered the Yankees postgame. 
 

 

Yes, he could have. It seems unlikely to me that he did this out of the blue, but yes, he could have.

18 minutes ago, Oblong said:

again.... witnesses say that Osuna wasn't mentioned or a topic of conversation at that time.  It was an unprovoked outburst.

I did read that reporters did not ask questions about Osuna. I haven't seen that Osuna was not informally mentioned or discussed as a topic of conversation as well.

That being the case, the Astros should fire Taubman sooner than later, because he has established himself as capable of psychotic outbursts, and the assumption must be that he will do so again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That being the case, the Astros should fire Taubman sooner than later, because he has established himself as capable of exhibiting psychotic outbursts, and the assumption must be that he will do so again.

One dumb mistake .. and fire him?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Oblong said:

I’m just as offended as they are.  Sounds like you are saying it’s not that big of a deal to hit women because in a gender equal world it’s acceptable for men to hit men without any extra issues being inserted into it beyond assault.  

I did not say any such thing...you appear to be a hysterical ninny, so I am moving on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And with regard to the “speculative details,” I’m only speculating as to why Taubman may have been emotionally motivated to act in the way that was reported. I think that’s substantially different than some of the speculation coming from you, @chasfh.

You’re the one acting as if it so unlikely that this dude could have this outburst unprompted by a question or comment. That seems intellectually dishonest, because I think you could imagine a number of reasons, given the known and corroborated facts, for why he might have done this. You say there hasn’t been a report that Osuna wasn’t informally mentioned? How exactly would such a report be made? Do reporters that were there need to consider all of the potential hypothetical facts from people that weren’t there and proactively state that a thing didn’t happen?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

One dumb mistake .. and fire him?

 

It's up to them. I'm not demanding it. But if they hold onto him and this happens again in some other public capacity, they can't say they didn't know it could happen again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Alternately, it is difficult to impossible to prove a negative.

In fairness, though, you can report a negative. Chas did acknowledge the reported lack of formal questions regarding osuna at the time of the outburst. He just wants it reported that there was also a lack of informal mentions regarding osuna at the time of the outburst.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Shelton said:

And with regard to the “speculative details,” I’m only speculating as to why Taubman may have been emotionally motivated to act in the way that was reported. I think that’s substantially different than some of the speculation coming from you, @chasfh.

You’re the one acting as if it so unlikely that this dude could have this outburst unprompted by a question or comment. That seems intellectually dishonest, because I think you could imagine a number of reasons, given the known and corroborated facts, for why he might have done this. You say there hasn’t been a report that Osuna wasn’t informally mentioned? How exactly would such a report be made? Do reporters that were there need to consider all of the potential hypothetical facts from people that weren’t there and proactively state that a thing didn’t happen?

 

I'm not acting like anything. This is not a fight we're having. Is it?

I've only maintained that the idea of the guy just going off out of the blue on someone on a subject nobody brought up, just because a person is in the room, doesn't pass my smell test. You disagree, and I've already allowed that your version could certainly be correct. I'm not sure what else you want from me. If agreeing to disagree is a bridge too far you and you need something more from me, I'm not sure I can give that to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I'm not acting like anything. This is not a fight we're having. Is it?

I've only maintained that the idea of the guy just going off out of the blue on someone on a subject nobody brought up, just because a person is in the room, doesn't pass my smell test. You disagree, and I've already allowed that your version could certainly be correct. I'm not sure what else you want from me. If agreeing to disagree is a bridge too far you and you need something more from me, I'm not sure I can give that to you.

It passes the smell test to me.

Guy (Taubman) is aggravated at someone (Reporter) for what they did a few months ago relating to his job performance (Speaking out about DV in direct relation to a person you hired with DV issues).

Guy is partying and drinking and all ramped up in a celebratory environment.  He's feeling good and strong and accomplished.  Could be drunk.  He sees that person he's aggravated with and goes off on them about what he's aggravated about.  That probably happens every day in bars across the country.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I'm not acting like anything. This is not a fight we're having. Is it?

I've only maintained that the idea of the guy just going off out of the blue on someone on a subject nobody brought up, just because a person is in the room, doesn't pass my smell test. You disagree, and I've already allowed that your version could certainly be correct. I'm not sure what else you want from me. If agreeing to disagree is a bridge too far you and you need something more from me, I'm not sure I can give that to you.

I don’t need anything from you, Chas. You want us to know the reported account doesn’t pass you smell test. I want you to know that I think you need your nose checked. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Oblong said:

It passes the smell test to me.

Guy (Taubman) is aggravated at someone (Reporter) for what they did a few months ago relating to his job performance (Speaking out about DV in direct relation to a person you hired with DV issues).

Guy is partying and drinking and all ramped up in a celebratory environment.  He's feeling good and strong and accomplished.  Could be drunk.  He sees that person he's aggravated with and goes off on them about what he's aggravated about.  That probably happens every day in bars across the country.

It happens every day at youth sporting events as well.

Bigglesworth thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tigrrfan said:

One dumb mistake .. and fire him?

 

It depends on his history.  If he just said something  stupid in the heat of the moment, they probably wouldn't fire him.  If it's consistent with his past actions, they might.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think he should be fired.... the team signed the player.  And taking what I have said I think happened that doesn't warrant firing.  Maybe a suspension or whatever but unless there's more I wouldn't think so.

It was still a ****ty thing to do and showed a disregard to DV issues.  The Astros have a culture problem.  (Insert joke about nerds not getting out much)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tigrrfan said:

One dumb mistake .. and fire him?

 

Only reasons I could see that happening - he isn't apologetic and sees nothing wrong with what he did; there is a pattern of such lack of control; his superiors feel he has damaged the Astros "brand" and it's needed as a restorative measure; he has bad BO 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When a guy's made $275M and has another $120+M coming to him.... I truly wonder if all that work he's going to have to do will be worth it to him?  Especially playing for a ****ty team. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...