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2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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11 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Umpire Eric Cooper died this weekend. Crazy. Age 52, my age. Worked the ALDS last week. Knee surgery for a blood clot a few days ago.

So sad. RIP Eric

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22 hours ago, 1776 said:

I’m still trying to understand what the MLB really wants to accomplish in this deal other than cut spending.

You make some interesting points about West Michigan. If they became AA in the EL, I believe that would expand the footprint of that league, which I don’t think they want to do. 

They want to reduce the AAA PCL from 16 teams to 10 and increase the AAA IL from 14 to 20. I actually think that makes sense. There are two PCL teams in Tennessee! Pretty sure Memphis and Nashville would be IL after the changes.

There are 14 teams in the South Atlantic League now. They’re proposing the SAL go to six teams and the northern half of the current league be a separate league. So a six team league would be less attractive to me. Your team would see the same five teams all year. Three team divisions? Not liking this one. 

Good point about Charlotte, NC being a distance from Chicago. On the flip side of this, the White Sox low A, high A, and AAA are all within two hours or less of each other in N.C.. The Charlotte park is only three years old. 

Trying to learn more about this. 

MILB is inefficient; just that simple

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-we-even-need-minor-league-baseball/

But the Houston Astros, a model of modern player development, bucked that trend a few years ago. After the 2017 season, they reduced their affiliate count from nine to seven clubs.2 The Astros believed they could become a more efficient producer of talent with fewer farm clubs.

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The number of teams/leagues seems ridiculous in minor league baseball, especially when you consider that you're lucky if one season worth of teams will ultimately yield 7-10 major leaguers (which seems optimistic). 

While we're at it, let's move back to Evansville.  

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When I think of Evansville the first player to pop into my head is Steve Kemp. At age 21 he hit .386. Just looked up his other aaa stats - in 52 games in '76 his ops was 1.203. I remember reading about him and how Detroit had hi hopes. Along with LeFlore, Fidrych, and Jason Thompson he was a post-'72-rebuild favorite of mine

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1 hour ago, leflore said:

When I think of Evansville the first player to pop into my head is Steve Kemp. At age 21 he hit .386. Just looked up his other aaa stats - in 52 games in '76 his ops was 1.203. I remember reading about him and how Detroit had hi hopes. Along with LeFlore, Fidrych, and Jason Thompson he was a post-'72-rebuild favorite of mine

Sadly, I think of Kip Young and Ed Putman.  What could have been...

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1980s-Evansville-Triplets-Booster-Club-Pin-Triple-A-Baseball-Tigers-Minor-League

 

I think the Triplets Booster Club used the same clip art that adorned my Trapper Keeper in middle school.

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interesting that some Yankees are saying that their lack of starting pitching is what kept a 103 win team from advancing

hard to say if Matt Boyd specifically would have made a difference here

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/20/new-york-yankees-houston-astros-alcs-game-6

That is the problem with which the Yankees must spend the offseason reckoning. They did not lose because they did not follow their plan. They lost because they did.

New York’s pitching strategy was built around its impenetrable bullpen. GM Brian Cashman spent more than $150 million assembling it: Chad Green, Tommy Kahnle, Adam Ottavino, Britton, Chapman, plus a rotating cast of young flamethrowers. In June, as tabloids clamored for another starting pitcher to fortify the rotation, Cashman traded for DH Edwin Encarnación. At the trade deadline he passed on Marcus Stroman (who went to the Mets), Trevor Bauer (Reds), Tanner Roark (A’s), Aaron Sanchez (Astros) and Zack Greinke (Astros). Cashman said that prices were too high, but he insisted he felt his roster was strong enough.

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1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

Sadly, I think of Kip Young and Ed Putman.  What could have been...

Forgot about Young. I thought he was going to have a nice career. What ever happened to him? Arm issues? I don't recall

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The Yankees were outscored by 1 run. Game of inches. They could have won had they cashed in on more risp opportunities. Imho Cashman wasn't that far off. Would love to have him in Det

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1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

Sadly, I think of Kip Young and Ed Putman.  What could have been...

I thought Young was going to a good one.  

I kept confusing Putman with Putnam though.  

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6 minutes ago, leflore said:

Forgot about Young. I thought he was going to have a nice career. What ever happened to him? Arm issues? I don't recall

Probably the same thing that happened to Jerry Ujdur.  

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Ah yes, Jerry Ujder. And lest we forget Eric King, Steve Searcy, Jeff Robinson....

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1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

interesting that some Yankees are saying that their lack of starting pitching is what kept a 103 win team from advancing

hard to say if Matt Boyd specifically would have made a difference here

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/20/new-york-yankees-houston-astros-alcs-game-6

That is the problem with which the Yankees must spend the offseason reckoning. They did not lose because they did not follow their plan. They lost because they did.

New York’s pitching strategy was built around its impenetrable bullpen. GM Brian Cashman spent more than $150 million assembling it: Chad Green, Tommy Kahnle, Adam Ottavino, Britton, Chapman, plus a rotating cast of young flamethrowers. In June, as tabloids clamored for another starting pitcher to fortify the rotation, Cashman traded for DH Edwin Encarnación. At the trade deadline he passed on Marcus Stroman (who went to the Mets), Trevor Bauer (Reds), Tanner Roark (A’s), Aaron Sanchez (Astros) and Zack Greinke (Astros). Cashman said that prices were too high, but he insisted he felt his roster was strong enough.

It was going to be a tough 4 straight game days for New York to depend upon its bullpen.  I just think there's too much of a "reliever roulette" risk attached to it for my liking.

I was kind of hoping for extra innings once it was tied in the top of the 9th.  I was curious to see how both teams were going to handle their pitching.

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4 hours ago, leflore said:

When I think of Evansville the first player to pop into my head is Steve Kemp. At age 21 he hit .386. Just looked up his other aaa stats - in 52 games in '76 his ops was 1.203. I remember reading about him and how Detroit had hi hopes. Along with LeFlore, Fidrych, and Jason Thompson he was a post-'72-rebuild favorite of mine

Why did the Tigers move its AAA affiliation from Toledo to Evansville?  Just bouncing off of this post in general, I don't know if you would have the answer or not.

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

Why did the Tigers move its AAA affiliation from Toledo to Evansville?  Just bouncing off of this post in general, I don't know if you would have the answer or not.

I don't know. Maybe because Toledo is an hour from Detroit?

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From today's Ringer.

The Tigers of the early 2010s, with their exceptional rotation but risibly overmatched bullpen, showed the postseason limitations of a club built entirely around its starting pitching. Or at least that was the lesson baseball’s movers and shakers took from it at the time, as the archetypal mid-2010s playoff pitchers were not made in the image of Scherzer and Verlander, but of Miller and Wade Davis.

But the success of the individual members of Detroit’s pitching staff down the road—not just this year but in 2018, when Dombrowski’s Red Sox won 108 games and the World Series with Price and Porcello in the rotation—speaks to the enduring quality of those great Tigers rotations. Clearly the early 2010s Tigers had enough pitching to win it all, when properly organized.

The 2017 Astros, 2018 Red Sox, and 2019 Nationals have shown that if anything, Tigers manager Jim Leyland didn’t ride his rotation of aces hard enough. The Yankees, Royals, and Indians have succeeded where the Tigers failed because they took to heart the lesson that in the postseason, every plate appearance is of critical importance, and as many outs as possible must be recorded by some kind of ultra-high-quality pitcher, starter or reliever. The past two World Series winners, plus the Nationals, made up for untrustworthy bullpens by making their rotation less of a rotation and more of a stable of high-leverage, long-stint relievers. No sense saving one’s ace for a tomorrow that may never come. It’s also worth noting that having a homegrown star like José Altuve, Mookie Betts, or Juan Soto helps, and because the Tigers were never able to develop such a position player in the 2010s, it became too expensive to keep that rotation together and buy off-the-shelf run support.

But the way in which those teams broke up, because of cost and because new ownership lacked Ilitch’s commitment to winning, should serve as an even starker cautionary tale than Detroit’s shield-your-eyes bullpen. The Red Sox fired Dombrowski one year after winning a title and are making noise about trading Mookie Betts to shed payroll, and both the Astros and Nationals have hard decisions to make. Ace starting pitchers and Stephen Strasburg are pitching as well as they ever have, and Cole will be a free agent after the season, while Strasburg has the option to opt out of his contract both this winter and next. Once a rotation this good is disassembled, it’s hard to return to those heights again. The Tigers are living proof.

https://www.theringer.com/2019/10/21/20924255/2013-detroit-tigers-justin-verlander-max-scherzer-anibal-sanchez?fbclid=IwAR3GaHKznEGp6lIvA6c2k-cf7aZtoAqR3riweSUyoe_M0aMN0IWOL3FV6i0

 

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Part of it is the craziness of baseball. As bad as those Tiger's bullpens may have seemed, Big Papi hit the 2013 grand slam vs Benoit, who was a quality reliever. If that doesn't happen I believe Detroit does go on to win the WS. Even if you have all the best pieces you might not win it all. Couple hits here or there and the Yankees beat the Astros.

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That 2013 team was the best of all of them, and their squandering of the ALCS was in my opinion the most bitter thing to happen during that four year run.

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:

That 2013 team was the best of all of them, and their squandering of the ALCS was in my opinion the most bitter thing to happen during that four year run.

I fully agree. Took some of the wind out from my fan sails. I expected them to lose in 2014 and then knew the bad years were coming 

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14 minutes ago, leflore said:

I fully agree. Took some of the wind out from my fan sails. I expected them to lose in 2014 and then knew the bad years were coming 

So did I. We put the exclamation point on the era with leadoff doubles in the ninth inning of Game 3 and instead of an amazing comeback, the last guy on the bench grounds into a DP to end it all. 😢

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I was pretty much out of touch following this team from a distance from 1974-1984 so I actually missed Evansville as a AAA franchise. I no longer collected baseball cards nor read the sporting news. As a kid I remember Syracuse because that’s what it said on Willie Horton’s baseball card, and then heck it’s been Toledo for 35 years. 

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3 hours ago, leflore said:

Part of it is the craziness of baseball. As bad as those Tiger's bullpens may have seemed, Big Papi hit the 2013 grand slam vs Benoit, who was a quality reliever. If that doesn't happen I believe Detroit does go on to win the WS. Even if you have all the best pieces you might not win it all. Couple hits here or there and the Yankees beat the Astros.

benoit should never have been in that position if jim leyland hadnt ****** up the game by burning his whole bullpen.  yes, still bitter at leyland for ******* up that series.

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