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2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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14 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

103 is for 2022. The yanks are at 135 next year per your link.

Then you have to add in the likely $30 million to Sanchez and judge so they are up to $165 with like 12 players under contract. So thats what i was pointing out that lindor to them isn't a slam dunk if they want to stay under thr luxury. 

Why are quibbling about the Yankees' salary situation when we should be sending suggestions to Avila & Ilitch about what to draw up for Lindor?

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Lindor strikes me as someone looking for brighter lights. Det would likely have to seriously overpay. 

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4 hours ago, Casimir said:

Why are quibbling about the Yankees' salary situation when we should be sending suggestions to Avila & Ilitch about what to draw up for Lindor?

Were saying the tigers shouldn't be scared that the big bad Yankees are gonna get involved and therefore should go after him

 

Yeah thats it. Thats the ticket

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Assuming Lindor makes it to free agency he does look like a perfect fit, atleast on paper.  Would fill a position of need and would still be well in his prime when the calvary comes up.

I don't necessarily expect the Tigers to get him  but I hope at the very least we are among the top suitors.  If we're not then that would make me skeptical about the merit behind Ilitch opening up the wallet when the time is right.

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1 hour ago, leflore said:

Lindor strikes me as someone looking for brighter lights. Det would likely have to seriously overpay. 

probably depends a lot on what the Tiger pitching looks like by the end of the season. A team that looks poised to win is probably a roughly equal attraction as other possible factors. Of course that cuts both ways - if none of the young pitchers appear or do anything in the short season, Tigers won't be looking too desirable to FA's

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10 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

probably depends a lot on what the Tiger pitching looks like by the end of the season. A team that looks poised to win is probably a roughly equal attraction as other possible factors. Of course that cuts both ways - if none of the young pitchers appear or do anything in the short season, Tigers won't be looking too desirable to FA's

I agree, although we actually have until the end of the 2021 season for the pitching to look good/roster improved as he isn't a FA until after the 2021 season.

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10 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

probably depends a lot on what the Tiger pitching looks like by the end of the season. A team that looks poised to win is probably a roughly equal attraction as other possible factors. Of course that cuts both ways - if none of the young pitchers appear or do anything in the short season, Tigers won't be looking too desirable to FA's

Lindor isn't a FA till after next season so hopefully by then we'll start to look like a team on the rise and capable of contending with the addition of somebody like him. 

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1 minute ago, 4hzglory said:

I agree, although we actually have until the end of the 2021 season for the pitching to look good/roster improved as he isn't a FA until after the 2021 season.

Yes - my bad - I was off a year - I thought he was done in CLE this year. The best long term strategy for Cleveland would be to deal him ASAP, recent evidence is they won't get much back for the rental if they wait far into 2021. I suppose if they think they have shot at winning they might hold him too long but I have my doubts Cleveland's pitching is going to look all that promising for '21.

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Just now, Gehringer_2 said:

Yes - my bad - I was off a year - I thought he was done in CLE this year. The best long term strategy for Cleveland would be to deal him ASAP, recent evidence is they won't get much back for the rental if they wait far into 2021. I suppose if they think they have shot at winning they might hold him too long but I have my doubts Cleveland's pitching is going to look all that promising for '21.

I agree completely.

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Yeah, I don’t think Lindor is going to hit free agency. Cleveland will trade him after this season and his new team will extend him, just like Betts.

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free agent SS after 2020: Didi Gregorius, Marcus Semien, and Andrelton Simmons

free agent SS after 2021: Francisco Lindor, Javier Baez, Carlos Correa, Trevor Story, and Corey Seager

Even Avila could make a good decision

 

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10 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

free agent SS after 2020: Didi Gregorius, Marcus Semien, and Andrelton Simmons

free agent SS after 2021: Francisco Lindor, Javier Baez, Carlos Correa, Trevor Story, and Corey Seager

Even Avila could make a good decision

 

1st three years for the Halos, Simmons generated 18.5 WAR for $25million.  But then last year - not so much!

That was still a terrible trade for Atl.

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On 1/13/2020 at 11:08 PM, Keepleyland2 said:

I'm all for criticizing if its reasonable. You just like to whine about everything. 

If you are mad because they signed Nova and you think he is going to put up an 8 era. That's fine. But, to be mad they signed Nova instead of a crappy, often injured pitcher because he was a hot prospect in Obama's first term. Well that's just being a contrarian to be a contrarian. 

That's why I was using Fulmer. Your own words called him done, get rid of him, I don't want him here anymore. But, then there is a pretty similar player available and you are all mad we didn't sign him. Can't have it both ways hauss. Either you want the good young players with potential. Or you want to get rid of them, like you did with Fulmer, when they show their first wart.

 

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but hey, lets sign ivan nova.

and ivan nova is 1) currently injured; and 2) has an era of 8.35.

what a great signing that turned out to be.  who could have foreseen that?  who i ask?  who?  lol.

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10 hours ago, Buddha said:

but hey, lets sign ivan nova.

and ivan nova is 1) currently injured; and 2) has an era of 8.35.

what a great signing that turned out to be.  who could have foreseen that?  who i ask?  who?  lol.

In defense of Nova over Walker, I think the Tigers were looking for innings as the priority rather than a flippable commodity.  Nova has been the durable pitcher.  With Fulmer coming off of his injury and a rotation full of suspects, my guess is the Tigers thought the better bet was on the guy that has put up over 150 IP the past 4 years rather than the guy that put up 14 the last two (although, to be fair, had put up somewhat similar workloads in 3 seasons prior).  It just ain't working out that way, which happens sometimes.

This all stems from resigning Victor rather than going after the more productive Aoki.  Its been a sinking ship ever since then.

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Yeah, if you're going to slam Al for not signing Walker then perhaps you should slam every GM who signed a starting pitcher other than Walker. As Casimir said, Nova has been durable the last 4 years, and was signed for 1.5 mil. Walker hasn't been durable and his salary is 2 mil.

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21 minutes ago, leflore said:

Yeah, if you're going to slam Al for not signing Walker then perhaps you should slam every GM who signed a starting pitcher other than Walker. As Casimir said, Nova has been durable the last 4 years, and was signed for 1.5 mil. Walker hasn't been durable and his salary is 2 mil.

you are in 100% rebuild mode.  you should be taking chances on guys like that.  nova is a dime a dozen and old.

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17 minutes ago, Buddha said:

you are in 100% rebuild mode.  you should be taking chances on guys like that.  nova is a dime a dozen and old.

He could have signed both.  I do think that at the price Walker was signed for ($2.0M), it'd have been worth it to kick the tires.  Nova was signed for lower ($1.5M).  Throw in the durability that I mentioned, and I don't think Nova was a bad signing.

Was Walker a popular name on the FA market?  He signed with Seattle, his original organization.  Maybe that was a factor, I don't know.

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19 minutes ago, Casimir said:

He could have signed both.  I do think that at the price Walker was signed for ($2.0M), it'd have been worth it to kick the tires.  Nova was signed for lower ($1.5M).  Throw in the durability that I mentioned, and I don't think Nova was a bad signing.

Was Walker a popular name on the FA market?  He signed with Seattle, his original organization.  Maybe that was a factor, I don't know.

for all we know, they DID kick the tires on him.  my beef at the time was if they didnt and then just went out and signed a has been/never was like Nova.

take a flyer like they did with carson fulmer.  most of the time it wont work out, but theyre in the position as an organization where they should be taking those kinds of chances.

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It likely would have taken a bigger offer than Seattle's 2 mil. Maybe Illitch wouldn't have approved that. That's more than kicking the tires for a guy who had barely pitched the past 2 seasons

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Popular as measured how?

Popular may be the wrong word there.  I guess I wonder how may other GMs have been outwitted by 27 good innings so far this season.

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The other thing with pitching injuries is that Avila got hosed by Matt Moore and Tyson Ross injuries last season.  If he decided to go a safer route to fill a spot in the rotation because last season didn't work out, can we blame his rationale?

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I'll be surprised if Seattle gets anything of value for him. Maybe a Lugo type prospect 

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