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IdahoBert

2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Sure on both Sosa and Palmeiro though I didn't particularly care for either.

Palmeiro hit 414 of his 569 home runs after age 30, starting in 1995, when peds were allegedly used widespread. That doesn't impact your HOF ballot? He lied at the congressional hearing then tested positive after peds were banned.  I wouldn't put him in but he might eventually get in. I'd be pissed if he gets in and Lou does not.

And Sosa hit 292 home runs from 1998-2002. A 5-yr stretch where he averaged 58+ home runs per year. That doesn't just happen. I wouldn't vote him in either, but he'll eventually get in.

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A few things.

a. I think both Sosa and Palmeiro used steroids.  I simply don't care that much that they did.

b. If they are going to eventually get in, and I suspect they will, I don't know, I guess I don't get the point of fighting the good fight now..  But, as I wrote before, I really don't care either way, so...

c. Lou should already be in the hall and his inclusion or exclusion has little to nothing to do with Sosa and Palmeiro.  It has to do with the somewhat arbitrary nature of the voting body, and I do not think for a moment that Lou gets in if those guys don't or vice versa.

Specific to Palmeiro:

His WAR ages 25-30 are very comparable to his seasonal WAR post age 30.

He happened to turn 30 in 1995 when HRs went up across the board in baseball. 

Honestly, the biggest criticism WRT to Rafael shouldn't be performance post age 30, per se, but that he maintained his level of performance so long into his 30s.  His aging curve (or relative lack thereof) is what is most suspicious to me.

 

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I'm not concerned at all about drug use  prior to the time they were specifically banned as a part of the collective bargaining process

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3 minutes ago, Lei Pong said:

I'm not concerned at all about drug use  prior to the time they were specifically banned as a part of the collective bargaining process

That is my feeling as well.  

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Good point about Palmeiro's war. I'll post one more point then drop the PED posts. I have significant stress these days (I know most folks do) and tend to swim in stats to cope - it actually gives me peace of mind.

The top 6 individual single season home run totals came in a 4 year span - 1998-2001. 11 of the top 18 (6 unique players) came over a 6 year span - 1997-2002.

To me that's very significant. I agree there are multiple factors, but I believe it points to the hi likelihood that peds took some players into the stratosphere. And may have shrunk their nuts.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Honestly, the biggest criticism WRT to Rafael shouldn't be performance post age 30, per se, but that he maintained his level of performance so long into his 30s.  His aging curve (or relative lack thereof) is what is most suspicious to me.

OTOH, Gary Gaetti had perhaps even more remarkable longevity and I ain't hearing anyone ***** about his steroid use.

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Not MLB, but probably illustrative of where these sports-based Covid spikes are coming from (hint: it’s not because they are participating in sports; it’s because they are going to bars).

 

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I just had a carnitas burrito awaiting the vote. Not enough cilantro or lime

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3 minutes ago, leflore said:

I just had a carnitas burrito awaiting the vote. Not enough cilantro or lime

Sounds amazing. The coffee shop nearby makes a really great shredded pork burrito. I think I’ll get one for lunch tomorrow. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

OTOH, Gary Gaetti had perhaps even more remarkable longevity and I ain't hearing anyone ***** about his steroid use.

Damn Gaetti!

Wait, he hit 20+ HR twice after age 30 (23, 35). He wasn't having all-time great years in his late 30s. 

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47 minutes ago, theroundsquare said:

The MLBPA vote was moved to 5:00 as I understand it.  So it may be going on now

Shot down. Voted against by MLBPA. This whole thing was entirely stupid. 

 

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21 minutes ago, leflore said:

I just had a carnitas burrito awaiting the vote. Not enough cilantro or lime

Any amount of cilantro and lime is too much. 

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I am so loving this. Any pain the players can inflict on Manfred is good, the more the better. 

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I’m loving it, too. Finally we can have baseball after the union wasted all of this time. 

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and, apropos of an era when the game has lost all its myths, here is a story from the era when it was still all myths. The true story of the infamous Yankee brawl at the Copacabana, told by the man who says he was the only one who actually threw a punch. Fun read if you have a freebie at the NYT left for this month.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/19/nyregion/1957-yankees-brawl-copacabana-silvestri.html?action=click&algo=als_engaged2_desk_filter&block=editors_picks_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=415435769&impression_id=990833071&index=2&pgtype=Article&region=footer

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41 minutes ago, Yoda said:

Any amount of cilantro and lime is too much. 

Lime is good. Definitely shelve the cilantro.

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These negotiations are following Tony Clark’s career arc.  

We’ve just reached 2002 in Boston.   

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players reject the proposal citing "health concerns".

chas immediately blames the owners for starting covid19 as a plot to reduce player salaries.

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