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2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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33 minutes ago, Buddha said:

didnt the owners offer to pay the christin stewart's of the world 100% of their salaries?

How?

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

How?

Out of the richer players pockets rather than their own. 

Was strictly a move to cause division within the union to strengthen their position for the next cba negotiations.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

How?

They offered them 100% for the lower salaried players and a lower rate for the players earning larger salaries.

Unsurprisingly, the union turned it down.  If the owners offered the superstars 100% and the lower level players 50%, the union would have probably taken it.

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

didnt the owners offer to pay the christin stewart's of the world 100% of their salaries?

Not 100 percent. It was all a sliding scale so I think the Stewarts of the world got like 70 percent (wanna say it was 280K) and the Miggy's of the world got 35 percent

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

They offered them 100% for the lower salaried players and a lower rate for the players earning larger salaries.

Unsurprisingly, the union turned it down.  If the owners offered the superstars 100% and the lower level players 50%, the union would have probably taken it.

I see, the class division gambit. OK. I thought maybe you were referring to the $170 million payment.

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I have nothing but contempt for everyone involved.  I don't like the owners, and I don't like the players' union.  It is impossible for me to choose sides.  They both suck.  Right now I don't care if they ever come back.  I'll just stay out here in the real world, with real world problems, and not miss them and their little fantasy world one bit.  They can all just **** off, all of them.  I've had my thrills from baseball, I can proceed without it from now on.  They can both just go and **** themselves.

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6 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

I have nothing but contempt for everyone involved.  I don't like the owners, and I don't like the players' union.  It is impossible for me to choose sides.  They both suck.  Right now I don't care if they ever come back.  I'll just stay out here in the real world, with real world problems, and not miss them and their little fantasy world one bit.  They can all just **** off, all of them.  I've had my thrills from baseball, I can proceed without it from now on.  They can both just go and **** themselves.

I'd say somewhere between Memorial Day and now, my "despair" has been turning to vitriol.  The billionaries vs millionaires is just ridiculous.  There are valid points to be made for either side, but there's also plenty of blame to be shared.

So, just from a practical sense for me, I have YouTubeTV.  FSD (as well as regional channels for Cincinnati and Cleveland) were removed from my subscription in March.  I'm not going to base a new cable decision on 50 games and then potentially have to go through the same rigamaroll next season if that provider has a spat with FSD/MLB.  Because, let's be honest, any expiring carriage contracts between now and then end of this CBA ought to be an absolute peach of a negotiation. 

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8 hours ago, Charles Liston said:

I have nothing but contempt for everyone involved.  I don't like the owners, and I don't like the players' union.  It is impossible for me to choose sides.  They both suck.  Right now I don't care if they ever come back.  I'll just stay out here in the real world, with real world problems, and not miss them and their little fantasy world one bit.  They can all just **** off, all of them.  I've had my thrills from baseball, I can proceed without it from now on.  They can both just go and **** themselves.

I feel pretty close to this. They’ve done everything they can to make us hate baseball, I haven’t really missed it, and if they don’t come back this year, speaking only for myself, I won’t feel bereft of anything.

I DVR the Korean games and watch maybe 15 or 20 minutes before I go to bed. it’s been a really nice zen experience just watching the beauty of the game played competently enough by players I don’t know. I don’t think at all about the problems MLB are creating for themselves.

I wonder whether, if MLB comes back this year and I watch, will I be thinking mostly about all the hassles that led to it? I don’t know. I guess we’ll see. 

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The negotiations  are not the main reason I am currently disappointed with MLB, but they don't help and I don't like either the owners or the union, but I am more angry at the owners.  I naturally support the players over the owners because they are the product we pay to see, but they are greedy.  I don't care for the owners at all and don't appreciate them destroying game so they can milk every penny out of it.  

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7 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

The negotiations  are not the main reason I am currently disappointed with MLB, but they don't help and I don't like either the owners or the union, but I am more angry at the owners.  I naturally support the players over the owners because they are the product we pay to see, but they are greedy.  I don't care for the owners at all and don't appreciate them destroying game so they can milk every penny out of it.  

With the way things are they really can't get started anyway, so it's all probably moot.

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2 minutes ago, Longgone said:

With the way things are they really can't get started anyway, so it's all probably moot.

yeah, I don't expect much of a season even if they get it started.  

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23 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I feel pretty close to this. They’ve done everything they can to make us hate baseball, I haven’t really missed it, and if they don’t come back this year, speaking only for myself, I won’t feel bereft of anything.

I DVR the Korean games and watch maybe 15 or 20 minutes before I go to bed. it’s been a really nice zen experience just watching the beauty of the game played competently enough by players I don’t know. I don’t think at all about the problems MLB are creating for themselves.

I wonder whether, if MLB comes back this year and I watch, will I be thinking mostly about all the hassles that led to it? I don’t know. I guess we’ll see. 

I am getting my fix from historical sim leagues.  

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Just now, tiger337 said:

I am getting my fix from historical sim leagues.  

Same here. I’m playing out the 2020 Tigers season and posting in another thread.

I’m also diving into some historical research for the virtual SABR conference. They can’t cancel baseball history.  

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Always remember this about Rob Manfred: he is not a baseball man. He is a business lawyer. His mandate is not to maximize the number of games in a season fans get to enjoy. His mandate is to maximize owner profits, minimize losses, and eliminate legal liability. That’s all.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

yeah, I don't expect much of a season even if they get it started.  

If we had maintained our discipline a little longer, maybe:

EahumZJWsAEX3e9?format=jpg&name=medium

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The commissioner is looking out for the owners' interests no different than the union chief is looking out for the players' interests.

I don't think either have some moral high ground.  They both want the most for their constituents at the expense of the other group.

It's just business.

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The commissioner is looking out for the owners' interests no different than the union chief is looking out for the players' interests.

I don't think either have some moral high ground.  They both want the most for their constituents at the expense of the other group.

It's just business.

this is how i feel.

my biggest concern for them not playing games is that it messes up my dmb league teams for next year.  i dont miss the games.  if i want baseball, i watch old tigers games on youtube.

with soccer back in full now, the nba and nhl potentially starting again, and football on the horizon, i dont miss baseball that much.

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36 minutes ago, Longgone said:

If we had maintained our discipline a little longer, maybe:

EahumZJWsAEX3e9?format=jpg&name=medium

I think we can't do it here.  Our ancestors left those places, in part, because they were restless, adventurous people.  It's in our blood. I am actually surprised we were able to shut down as much as we did.  

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

It's just business.

What I find maddening is that both sides, and in the regard especially the players,  are wed to obsolete frameworks that are keeping them from getting to solutions that would be better for both sides. So for me it's less the greed on boths sides, which is expected, than the stupidity.

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28 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The negotiations do not anger or disappoint me to the extent it seems to for most others.

My disappointment with MLB stems from things that happened prior to the negotiations.  I suppose the negotiations are just another opportunity to take shots at them.  

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Just now, Gehringer_2 said:

What I find maddening is that both sides, and in the regard especially the players,  are wed to obsolete frameworks that are keeping them from getting to solutions that would be better for both sides. So for me it's less the greed on boths sides, which is expected, than the stupidity.

It's a Nash equilibrium situation they simply haven't hit on yet.

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5 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I think we can't do it here.  Our ancestors left those places, in part, because they were restless, adventurous people.  It's in our blood. I am actually surprised we were able to shut down as much as we did.  

I'd guess the far greater factor is a general feeling of entitlement and complacency, but I haven't lived in those other nations to really have a sense of how their citizenry feel about following health guidelines.

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13 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I think we can't do it here.  Our ancestors left those places, in part, because they were restless, adventurous people.  It's in our blood. I am actually surprised we were able to shut down as much as we did.  

I question the validity of treating "cases" as the be all end all when looking at the numbers.  we've ramped up testing here...have the other countries in the graph done so as well?

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