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2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

That Chris Sale extension is going to be brutal for the Red Sox.  

Dombrowski, right? Never learns...

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DD leaves quite a wake. But we know in Det Mr I was running that ship

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8 hours ago, leflore said:

DD leaves quite a wake. But we know in Det Mr I was running that ship

Luckily .. the RS were able to dump David Price onto the Dodgers in the Mookie Betts deal.  However, I do think David Price will have significantly better success in the NL than he would have if he had remained with the RS.

 

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14 hours ago, 1776 said:

Dombrowski, right? Never learns...

He learned a long time ago that you can leave the mess for someone else.  Just win now.  

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24 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

He learned a long time ago that you can leave the mess for someone else.  Just win now.  

Beats our current lose now strategy. 

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3 hours ago, tiger337 said:

He learned a long time ago that you can leave the mess for someone else.  Just win now.  

he did what he was brought there to do: win a world series.

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Yes but they could've potentially won that World Series without sacrificing their future like DD did.   When he took over they had the top farm system in baseball and Bogearts, Betts, Bradley Jr, Benintendi and Devers already in tow.   That is what you call a young championship caliber core. 

Instead of just building around that by making some peripheral upgrades here and there he decided to gut the system, hand out ridiculous extensions and sign past their prime players which now forced them to unload the 2nd best baseball player on the planet for pennies on the dollar and left them with one of the 3 worst systems in baseball.     

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6 hours ago, Buddha said:

he did what he was brought there to do: win a world series.

Yeah, I am not really being critical of him.  

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I'm happy that DD was here.  Beats the heck out of Randy Smith.  By the way, those of you who have asked about Randy, thanks, much appreciated.  Yes, he still tucks his shirt into his underwear, and yes he is still hired by several teams in Arizona each spring to give Macarena lessons to the rookies.  Thanks for asking, it will mean a lot to him.   

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My wife told me Kenny Rogers died today. My immediate response was, "The pitcher?"  When she told me it was not the pitcher I calmed down.

Both Kennys have Toledo connections. The singer of course refers to "a bar in Toledo, across from the depot" in the song Lucille.  That bar is traditionally thought to have been The Country Palace on Jefferson Ave across form the former Greyhound station/depot. I'm thinking maybe Kenny sang at the Palace at some point, I do not know. Years later the pitcher Kenny Rogers performed at 5/3rd field, about 3 blocks away.  He was on injury rehab from the Tigers probably at age 42 or thereabouts and my only memory of his outing was him picking a guy off of first who had dared to get a hit off of him. But you have to wonder if the pitcher knew how close he was to the bar the singer with the same name had referenced...

Little known fact: The singer had five wives. None were named Lucille.

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I saw Kenny Rogers & The First Edition in 1969 or 1970 perform at a two year college in North Carolina. It was the first concert I ever attended. I was a fan from that point on. Years later I saw him with Dottie West when he was really big time. RIP Kenny.

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11 hours ago, 1776 said:

I saw Kenny Rogers & The First Edition in 1969 or 1970 perform at a two year college in North Carolina. It was the first concert I ever attended. I was a fan from that point on. Years later I saw him with Dottie West when he was really big time. RIP Kenny.

I just dropped in (to see what condition my condition was in).

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13 hours ago, 1776 said:

I was a fan from that point on. Years later I saw him with Dottie West when he was really big time.

I remember going to see Kenny Rogers and Dottie West perform together somewhere up here in Northern Michigan .. IIRC the venue was either in Traverse City or in Cadillac.  

Still have some Kenny Rogers and the First Edition record albums that I may pull out and play later today.

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Am curious, ..what Red Sox prospects did DD "gut" from their farm system?  Certainly wasn't any of Bogearts, Betts, Bradley Jr, Benintendi or Devers!

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52 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

Am curious, ..what Red Sox prospects did DD "gut" from their farm system?  Certainly wasn't any of Bogearts, Betts, Bradley Jr, Benintendi or Devers!

Mocada and Kopech

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That is DD's MO. Max out the payroll, keep the cream of the crop in the farm and trade the rest. It probably gives a team the best possible shot a winning a world series in the short term, but come with a cost. You're left with some aging players with huge contracts and an empty farm system.

I think a fair criticism of him would be that that farm production seems to crater after he's in charge for a while. They were doing well in the draft with Kopech, Betts, and Bradley all taken after the first round. The international program was doing well but has stopped producing recently also.

The same things happened in Detroit.

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52 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Mocada and Kopech

at least the BSox got 15 WAR from Sale before he blew up. Did we net near that much for  Adames and Suarez?

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18 minutes ago, Stanley68 said:

That is DD's MO. Max out the payroll, keep the cream of the crop in the farm and trade the rest. It probably gives a team the best possible shot a winning a world series in the short term, but come with a cost. You're left with some aging players with huge contracts and an empty farm system.

I think a fair criticism of him would be that that farm production seems to crater after he's in charge for a while. They were doing well in the draft with Kopech, Betts, and Bradley all taken after the first round. The international program was doing well but has stopped producing recently also.

The same things happened in Detroit.

the biggest knock on DD is that he completely missed the technology revolution in stats, pitching, and player bio-mechanics in general. Everybody seems to lay this at Mike Ilitch's door, but does anyone think that if Dombrowski had purchased some Rapsodo machines Mike would have made him send them back? That level of detail in the system was all DD's domain and he missed it altogether.

He didn't just trade away the future in the form of the bodies of the young players moved, he did nothing to prepare the franchise for any future.

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2 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

at least the BSox got 15 WAR from Sale before he blew up. Did we net near that much for  Adames and Suarez?

The rebuild would sure look brighter with those two thats for sure. Wow.

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3 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Mocada and Kopech

Yeah, Mocada has already made pretty big splash at 24.

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5 hours ago, Stanley68 said:

That is DD's MO. Max out the payroll, keep the cream of the crop in the farm and trade the rest. It probably gives a team the best possible shot a winning a world series in the short term, but come with a cost. You're left with some aging players with huge contracts and an empty farm system.

I think a fair criticism of him would be that that farm production seems to crater after he's in charge for a while. They were doing well in the draft with Kopech, Betts, and Bradley all taken after the first round. The international program was doing well but has stopped producing recently also.

The same things happened in Detroit.

I disagree on the part about keeping the cream of the crop.  I think that happened in Boston because the farm he inherited was incredible.  With Detroit, he didn't really produce any top players, with the exceptions of Verlander, Porcello and Granderson.  He traded our back-to-back 1st rounders in Maybin and Miller, though that worked out well.  Also traded other first rounders, like Jacob Turner and Jonathan Crawford.  

In his defense, he rarely got burned.  Suarez stands out.  Ray, too, but we didn't draft him.

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Holy crap, how come I've never seen this before?! 34 minute color video of 1968 season highlights, 20 minutes of which are from the regular season.  I've listened to the audio highlights album many times since I was a kid.

 

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DD also gave up Travis Shaw for an injured reliever that did nothing for the Red Sox.

While Shaw sucked in 2019 he was worth 7 wins the previous two seasons including a 2017 where he hit 34 bombs and had an OPS of .875.    He was only 26 years old at the time too, he could've either been of major use for the Sox or delivered more in a trade than a high risk reliever if DD wouldn't have dumped him right away.  

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