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IdahoBert

2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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4 hours ago, chasfh said:

not sure how  seriously I can take anyone who thinks Al Avila was responsible for Cabrera's current contract.

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Beyond that, all of the major financial constraints hamstringing the Tigers – notably the $30 million annually they owe Miguel Cabrera through 2025 –were signed on Avila’s watch.

 

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48 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Avila is the new Matt Millen, and Chris I is the new WCFS.  Chris is happy being horrible and doesn't have a clue that his GM shows near-zero ability to pull them out of it.

I myself have Avila slotted in as the new Russ Thomas, but I think we’re yodeling in the same valley.

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3 hours ago, Los Gatos said:

The only reason I'd be looking at low-to-mid cost veterans would be as potential trade chips next summer.  A temporary lift to not as bad isn't worth slipping back in draft and waiver position.  Winning 5-7 more games next year with short-term fixes wouldn't be less painful than this year and wouldn't do anything positive for the future. 

I’m sorry, but I reject this line of thinking. What does it say about the competence of an organization that they feel they must drive their big league club to the historical depths of decrepitude on a frequent basis in order to get a #1 pick that even they can’t blow? What kind of sad sack loser mentality is that to root for?

That really highlights a systemic problem with the Tigers: they can find top stars, all right, but they can’t stock their roster or system for depth. Anyone can sign Miguel Cabrera and draft Casey Mize if they’re put on a silver platter for you. But try to draft kids or sign free agents for depth and the Tigers come up snake eyes way too often. Just take a look at some of the crappy free agent signings even since the 2006 Series appearance—some of them so bad that even we fans out here were yelling about them the minute we heard about them. Even when the Tigers were winning titles in a weak Central division, their weaknesses were always down the batting order, the bench and the bullpen. It’s the ultimate stars and scrubs franchise, and the farm system is shaping up the exact same way again. It’s all this regime knows how to do.

No wonder the Tigers covet the #1 pick so badly. They know how much they need it and how much trouble they’re in without it.

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4 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

I’m worried that when the good young pitching arrives there won’t be any offense to support them.

It got really tedious this last season when there were numerous well pitched games that were wasted due to deficient run support.

I don’t think drafting hitters is going to help guys who are going to be pitching here in the next year or two. They’re actually going to have to obtain offensive clout through trade or free agency. 

I get the feeling that’s the last thing this team intends on doing. 

Deficient run support and terrible defense. I agree with you. I'd rather have a couple more solid pieces in place when the Erie boys get called up. No help in Toledo, potentially Paredes in Erie

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14 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

The remarks from Bigglesworth are spot on.When I look at 2020 spring training, of the 25 spots (or is it 26 this Spring), I see maybe 4 or 5 spots of the 2020 roster  locked down, leaving us 20 true ballplayers short. When we traded  Verlander for the pieces we received, we had to hit on them for this rebuild to progress normally. That hasn't and will not happen.

We have Manning, Mize, Paraedes (sp), and Greene that will probably have some impact at the major league level someday, but not in 2020. The  position players in the system such as Daz Cameron, Cam Gibson, Parker Meadows, and Kody Clemens are just guys of no impact in any future.

It appears to me that for the most part, we  have been and are still very poor at identifying talent and developing it properly.

 I see about 107 losses for 2020 as the franchise still stands. Any reasonable improvement date is 2021 or 2022, with maybe a shot at .500 in 2023.

 

I think it's way too early to write off Parker Meadows. He had nearly a 10% walk rate and 20% K rate as a 19 year old in A ball. Not a bad foundation. The others I agree on. 

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31 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

Yeah that Bill Felber's rankings are like the Word of God.

I have no idea who this guy is, but the ratings make sense.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I’m sorry, but I reject this line of thinking. What does it say about the competence of an organization that they feel they must drive their big league club to the historical depths of decrepitude on a frequent basis in order to get a #1 pick that even they can’t blow? What kind of sad sack loser mentality is that to root for?

That really highlights a systemic problem with the Tigers: they can find top stars, all right, but they can’t stock their roster or system for depth. Anyone can sign Miguel Cabrera and draft Casey Mize if they’re put on a silver platter for you. But try to draft kids or sign free agents for depth and the Tigers come up snake eyes way too often. Just take a look at some of the crappy free agent signings even since the 2006 Series appearance—some of them so bad that even we fans out here were yelling about them the minute we heard about them. Even when the Tigers were winning titles in a weak Central division, their weaknesses were always down the batting order, the bench and the bullpen. It’s the ultimate stars and scrubs franchise, and the farm system is shaping up the exact same way again. It’s all this regime knows how to do.

No wonder the Tigers covet the #1 pick so badly. They know how much they need it and how much trouble they’re in without it.

Tanking is for losers and goes against the spirit of competition that sports is all about.  I actually don't think they are trying for the number#1 pick every year though.  They are bad because Ilitch is being cheap and Avila isn't doing a great job.

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Tanking is for losers and goes against the spirit of competition that sports is all about.  I actually don't think they are trying for the number#1 pick every year though.  They are bad because Ilitch is being cheap and Avila isn't doing a great job.

Just because Ilitch is being cheap and Avila isn’t doing a great job doesn’t mean they’re not trying to tank for the #1 pick.

if the Tigers were trying to win they’d be trying to bring good players in to help them win. They’re not. The conclusion I’m drawing is that they’re trying to tank, and there’s no point to tanking if it doesn’t bring you as high a draft pick as possible. 

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

Tanking is for losers and goes against the spirit of competition that sports is all about.  I actually don't think they are trying for the number#1 pick every year though.  They are bad because Ilitch is being cheap and Avila isn't doing a great job.

Agreed on the last part for sure....I think they were tanking in the second half of 2017 and in 2018....I think they actually tried to build a cheap-but-not-tanking team in 2019 but Avila again didn't pull the right levers in terms of signings and trades to make it work.  I don't even see where they got unlucky this year....all of the injuries to potentially significant contributors were from known health issues or from injury-prone guys, with the exception of Mercer and Ross, who even if healthy probably weren't going to change their fortunes.

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Even if I give Avila credit for knowing JD's real potential, it's really hard to identify where he achieved his goals as an executive, either as an assistant (where the organization failed to identify/select/develop talent) or as the GM of a win-now team (that didn't) or of a rebuild (which so far does not have the feel of an organization that has turned the corner in terms of young talent).

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It's morally wrong to charge Tiger prices for Mud Hen baseball.  They should be punished with apathy

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54 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Agreed on the last part for sure....I think they were tanking in the second half of 2017 and in 2018....I think they actually tried to build a cheap-but-not-tanking team in 2019 but Avila again didn't pull the right levers in terms of signings and trades to make it work. 

I thought the signings in 2019 were undertaken with an eye to flipping as many of those players as possible?

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12 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I thought the signings in 2019 were undertaken with an eye to flipping as many of those players as possible?

Probably, but you see how that worked out. Fail.

 

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35 minutes ago, Lei Pong said:

It's morally wrong to charge Tiger prices for Mud Hen baseball.  They should be punished with apathy

Fans should have a “blackout“ like they’re going to a funeral.

The men should wear black top hats in all black clothing, women should dress in all black with veils like old weeping widows in black and white photos.  

Every time the Tigers come to bat the whole crowd should stand up and shout “Bring out your dead.”

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It gets harder and harder to imagine that JV was actually a Tiger in the past. This org’s demise and his incredible sustainability  really are two different world’s now. No one in the Tigers organization today is as class as J.V. There won’t be another Verlander for years to come, if ever. Just thinking out loud...

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Verlander pitched his 9th postseason game of atleast 7IP and 1 run or less, only Glavine and Schilling have more in MLB history.

Im old enough to remember when people questioned his playoff performances.  

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58 minutes ago, 1776 said:

It gets harder and harder to imagine that JV was actually a Tiger in the past. This org’s demise and his incredible sustainability  really are two different world’s now. No one in the Tigers organization today is as class as J.V. There won’t be another Verlander for years to come, if ever. Just thinking out loud...

To be fair, Verlander is an all time great. Most teams are lucky to have a handful of guys like that throughout their entire history. We were lucky enough to have two at once.

Still, I  know what you mean, it'd be nice for another future hall of famer to play for detroit in the next decade. Things sure will be bleak by the 2030's if nobody does.....

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3 hours ago, chasfh said:

I thought the signings in 2019 were undertaken with an eye to flipping as many of those players as possible?

That could be...certainly by the time they came out of the ASB they were, for the 3rd season in a row, in full tank mode, and it was the 4th season out of the last 5 where they were in sell or tank mode by the Trade deadline.  

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12 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Verlander pitched his 9th postseason game of atleast 7IP and 1 run or less, only Glavine and Schilling have more in MLB history.

Im old enough to remember when people questioned his playoff performances.  

then i assume youre old enough to remember him bombing in the playoffs for the tigers?

:(

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29 minutes ago, Buddha said:

then i assume youre old enough to remember him bombing in the playoffs for the tigers?

:(

Meh- the rookie is what got us there, that he might be out of gas was always the chance.

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14 hours ago, Lei Pong said:

It's morally wrong to charge Tiger prices for Mud Hen baseball.  They should be punished with apathy

I haven't been to a Tigers game in over 2 years.  I can go watch an A ball game near me and get the same level of competency.

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