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2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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38 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

yes

That's because you were in he media and you have to stick up for them.  ESPN has been a clown network for years.  A good number of those basement dwelling sabers have now moved on to MLB teams.  

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55 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

It's not about weak record keeping.  It's deliberate fraud to get a better contract (complete with fake birth certificates and everything).  Some even change their name (remember Fausto Carmona?).  International scouts would rather sign a 16 year old than a 19 year old because it means more time for development.  I'm not sure what "proof" the Tigers have that may indicate Paredes is older than he claims, but it's not a new scam.  

IF there is anything to this it is definitely a contract fraud and if the Tigers had enough reason they could pursue it court. But in this case it's like a vendor suing a customer for breach of contract - you could, but winning the case is still losing the war. Paredes is young enough either way and they have spent little enough money on him to date that his potential value to them is still far greater even at 22 than any money they could demand back. I would imagine if they do have any doubts they will have to be resolved before his first arbitration hearing!

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10 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

IF there is anything to this it is definitely a contract fraud and if the Tigers had enough reason they could pursue it court. But in this case it's like a vendor suing a customer for breach of contract - you could, but winning the case is still losing the war. Paredes is young enough either way and they have spent little enough money on him to date that his potential value to them is still far greater even at 22 than any money they could demand back. I would imagine if they do have any doubts they will have to be resolved before his first arbitration hearing!

It was baseless speculation.

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1 hour ago, Tigrrfan said:

Boston likely going to be found not guilty of any real-time on-the-field transgressions. 

One of the reasons I say this is because ..I suspect part of the reason for the delay in the Mookie Betts  / David Price to-the-Dodgers trade is because the Dodgers wanted assurance from MLB's Manfred that Mookie & Price wouldn't become an issue for them.   It is not beyond reasonable suspicion that MLB's powerful owners via their puppet Manfred would make sure that the trade does not come back and bite baseball in the you-know-what.

Some of you are amazing.

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4 minutes ago, Longgone said:

It was baseless speculation.

No doubt - my point more along the line that in this situation it would not likely change anything on the ground anyway.

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On 2/15/2020 at 2:44 PM, 1776 said:

This has nothing to do with any of what you refer to. The Astros issue is a current event with a lot of stuff still unfolding. I find this more relevant right now.

sure mr mcgwire, i understand.  youre not here to talk about the past...

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11 hours ago, tiger337 said:

The delay was because Graterol had a health issue.  

Yeah .. right!

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11 hours ago, Longgone said:

Some of you are amazing.

Some of you are equally amazing.

My main point was that Boston may very likely to be found innocent of cheating in 2018. 

My suggested suspicion as to possible reason for delay was offered as a secondary point ..and was not at all stated as fact.  

Whether Red Sox are implicated or not ..we will find out soon enough because reports are that Manfred intends to publicly announce the results of his investigation later this week. 

As for the trade ..the initial 3-team trade was supposed to send Graterol to the Red Sox but that did not happen due to a 5-day delay for 'whatever reason'.  Graterol's agent Scot Boras has publicly denied any health issues surrounding the pitcher.  

IIRC ..it was the Boston Red Sox who initiated the delay.     

Is it not true that some of the Dodger players been the most outspoken about the 'cheating' that the Astros did. 

Would the Dodgers have traded for Betts and Price if they truly believed with reasonable probability that Manfred will find that the Red Sox also cheated?

But hey .. when billionaires have hundreds of millions of dollars at stake ..stranger things have happened.

Ultimately ..it may turn out that the biggest story of all is that the Dodgers got Mookie, Price, ...AND Graterol.

 

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1 hour ago, Tigrrfan said:

Would the Dodgers have traded for Betts and Price if they truly believed with reasonable probability that Manfred will find that the Red Sox also cheated?

Sure! Why not? Did you think Betts and Price would be individually punished?!

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16 hours ago, Casimir said:

I think we've got an opening if you're up for the challenge.

I'll consider it, thanks.

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13 hours ago, tiger337 said:

That's because you were in he media and you have to stick up for them.  ESPN has been a clown network for years.  A good number of those basement dwelling sabers have now moved on to MLB teams.  

We're just talking credibility here (and I don't have to stick up for anyone). Having a giant logo, that everyone knows, that holds people accountable is way more credible than people in someone's basement. Especially when it comes to sharing rumors or stories. There is a reason why when JPM throws out a trade rumor it gets more traction than random twitter poster

Just like the NYT has more credibility than random blogger. 

It has nothing to do with whether the basement sabers go on to get MLB jobs. Nothing. It has to do with whether its credtible the rumors they are sharing. How is a basement saber guy going to know someone's age? Are they out talking to people, digging into documents, etc? Probably not. In fact they might be regurgitating something from one of them studio things. 

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14 hours ago, Buddha said:

manchester city cheated and uefa banned them from the champions league for two years.

an equivalent foe the astros would be banning them from the post season for two years.  not the slap on the wrist mlb gave them.

Good thing for Man City they have a whole other league to play in and well as various cup tournaments and friendlies tours they can clear a few hundred million pounds from.

I don't think Baseball can ban the Astros or any team from postseason play because that would affect they way they approach the games they do play, which would affect the performance and results of other teams playing them. For example, if there's no there there at the end of the season for the Astros, they might start tanking games by running suboptimal, even experimental, lineups onto the field, which would help AL West teams more than anybody else, and give those West teams a leg up in playoff seeding.

I agree with your characterization of "slap on the wrist", which was already built into the system of penalties they'd implemented, but I don't know what they can do beyond that since the Astros' penalties have already been announced. If Baseball were to keep layering on more, unexpected and off-the-books penalties, it would undermine the chain of established authority and MLB would risk becoming a barely-restrained tyranny.

And besides, I don't think any of Manfred's thirty bosses would sanction additional penalties.

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I don't know how the european soccer is set up as a business unit.... but in MLB it's a certified monopoly.  The teams are not business competitors.  They are partners.  The competition is artificial.  It's akin to one McDonald's competing against another to see who can sell the most milkshakes or have the best drive thru time.  They aren't interested in putting the other one out of business.   Manfred works for the owners who are all partners and their ultimate goal is to grow the value of the franchises.  That's Manfred's task as an agent of the people he works for.  He works for the owners.  NOt the fans, not the players....

 

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I do wonder is there was more to the Graterol injury?  At the risk of sounding a bit conspiracy theory-ish, it would make things uncomfortable for Betts and Price if they were personally involved in any 2018 World Series cheating shenanigans.  It's very easy for Bellinger to bash players who aren't currently his teammates, but would make for an awkward clubhouse for their new Red Sox acquisitions.

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14 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

It's not about weak record keeping.  It's deliberate fraud to get a better contract (complete with fake birth certificates and everything).  Some even change their name (remember Fausto Carmona?).  International scouts would rather sign a 16 year old than a 19 year old because it means more time for development.  I'm not sure what "proof" the Tigers have that may indicate Paredes is older than he claims, but it's not a new scam.  

Sure it would be about weak record keeping, because how do you think the organization would confirm his age? Are they going to take just his word and his agent's word for it? I find that highly doubtful even for organizations considered sloppy by MLB terms. Remember, major league teams are sophisticated billion-dollar organizations, not mom-and-pop storefront businesses--even Detroit Tigers, Inc. So I can't believe they do not have any grip on industry best practices to confirm an international prospect's age, which is arguably the most crucial thing to get right when they're signed.

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14 hours ago, LeeCorrie said:

How about Christin Stewart near the end of these Detnews pics attached to the Cameron Maybin article.  He looks almost too jacked...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2020/02/16/past-present-maybin-grateful-fired-up-third-stint-tigers/4779344002/

I hope that is partly the camera angle because that just doesn't look right.

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27 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

We're just talking credibility here (and I don't have to stick up for anyone). Having a giant logo, that everyone knows, that holds people accountable is way more credible than people in someone's basement. Especially when it comes to sharing rumors or stories. There is a reason why when JPM throws out a trade rumor it gets more traction than random twitter poster

Just like the NYT has more credibility than random blogger. 

It has nothing to do with whether the basement sabers go on to get MLB jobs. Nothing. It has to do with whether its credtible the rumors they are sharing. How is a basement saber guy going to know someone's age? Are they out talking to people, digging into documents, etc? Probably not. In fact they might be regurgitating something from one of them studio things. 

I understand that most bloggers do not have access, but in the age of social media, it is possible for an aggressive, competent person to go far without a big media logo.  Look at how Chris Cotillo got started.    

The person I trust for Tigers minor league news more than anyone is microline and he doesn't work for a big network or newspaper.  He works for BP which helps, but he hasn't always worked for BP.  Tigstown is not your parents basement either, but  I am sure it has been characterized as such by some who aren't familiar with it.  Mark has always had a certain amount of access to players and scouts and I think they have always liked to talk to him because he knows his stuff. 

 

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48 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

We're just talking credibility here (and I don't have to stick up for anyone). Having a giant logo, that everyone knows, that holds people accountable is way more credible than people in someone's basement.

 

1378231998_foxnewslogo.jpg.cde6736913ea6f305c8174685d457378.jpg

😉

 

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54 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

We're just talking credibility here (and I don't have to stick up for anyone). Having a giant logo, that everyone knows, that holds people accountable is way more credible than people in someone's basement. Especially when it comes to sharing rumors or stories. There is a reason why when JPM throws out a trade rumor it gets more traction than random twitter poster

Just like the NYT has more credibility than random blogger. 

It has nothing to do with whether the basement sabers go on to get MLB jobs. Nothing. It has to do with whether its credtible the rumors they are sharing. How is a basement saber guy going to know someone's age? Are they out talking to people, digging into documents, etc? Probably not. In fact they might be regurgitating something from one of them studio things. 

 

14 hours ago, tiger337 said:

That's because you were in he media and you have to stick up for them.  ESPN has been a clown network for years.  A good number of those basement dwelling sabers have now moved on to MLB teams.  

KL has this right. It's apple and oranges.  The question is not whether some guy pouring over data making projections in a basement is a good statistician that might someday prove himself to a team's analytics effort, it's whether he has any chops as an investigative journalist. It would be hard to think of two fields of competence with any less overlap. Maybe you have the rare stat guy who becomes an investigative journalist, but that is an outlier personality. Social media is fine, but you are going to find stuff out from people without being in the field you at least are going to have to use old fashioned one on one tools like e-mail and the telephone. :wink:

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Miguel Cabrera arrived in Lakeland looking fit as advertised. Huge difference from the end of last season.

He admitted he was heavy last year. Diet changes made a big difference.

“My goal was to get in shape, trying to be ready for the season, trying to come back 100 percent.”

they are hitting all the old bits.

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5 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

what is Microline's secret identity, so I can follow him on the Tweeter?

@ProspectMark

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Just now, tiger337 said:

@ProspectMark

One day, Mark won't just be a prospect. 

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