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IdahoBert

2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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36 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I like the theory here, but in practice a starting pitcher is either in the rotation or out. You can't easily share time or positions to give a guy innings like you can with a position player. We have 5 starters on the 25 now who have the inside track to the 2020 rotation  and the guy you might want to move to the pen to make room, VerHagen, has already shown much better value working on a 5 day schedule that on call out of the pen. So you don't have too much room to work with. I could see them bringing in one guy.  Unless they move Boyd of course.

I really don't know what to make of Norris or VerHagen at this point.  I don't want to rely on them as starters, but they have shown some effectiveness in their current arrangement.  Can you get by with 3 IP stints every 5th day out of 2 guys?  That leaves 39 IP to allocate among 11 other pitchers for every 5 day cycle.  Maybe you should be able to expect that, but I don't know if that's the case in this day and age.

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42 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I really don't know what to make of Norris or VerHagen at this point.  I don't want to rely on them as starters, but they have shown some effectiveness in their current arrangement.  Can you get by with 3 IP stints every 5th day out of 2 guys?  That leaves 39 IP to allocate among 11 other pitchers for every 5 day cycle.  Maybe you should be able to expect that, but I don't know if that's the case in this day and age.

Norris won't be on an innings limit next season!

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3 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Norris won't be on an innings limit next season!

But will he be effective?  He's been through a lot of weird stuff the past few seasons.

Wow, he's up to 138 IPs already this season?  I wouldn't have guessed that.

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26 minutes ago, Casimir said:

But will he be effective?  He's been through a lot of weird stuff the past few seasons.

Wow, he's up to 138 IPs already this season?  I wouldn't have guessed that.

We're going to be a juggernaut next season baby!!

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

They definitely will be wrecking souls and ****ting on dreams.

I think that's a Merle Haggard song

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4 hours ago, Casimir said:

I think it'd be good to have an experienced arm or two in the rotation when the pitching prospects make their ways up.  Experience isn't everything, but it'd be nice to know 30 or 60 starts are taken care of with a reasonable chance of competing.

To an extent, I think that lack of experience hurts the offense a bit, but I think the larger part to that is there are some guys that (1) aren't ready and/of (2) have regressed.

OK, I agree with that take. I wasn't sure whether you were suggesting that the value in having Boyd around is that he would mentor the kids when they come up, because that's a frequent assumption fans make when we have no way of knowing whether a particular player is inclined toward that.

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5 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

btw, the tank is over after this season.  Anything less than signficant progress in both player development and W-L next season and the Motor City Tiggers will incur my wrath.

You're going to be really, really wrathful next October.

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Yeah next year maybe even worse, not just cause the Tigers likely aren't going to be better but the competition should be improved. 

I don't think the Royals or White Sox will be as bad next year neither will teams like Toronto or the Mariners outside the division.  

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

OK, I agree with that take. I wasn't sure whether you were suggesting that the value in having Boyd around is that he would mentor the kids when they come up, because that's a frequent assumption fans make when we have no way of knowing whether a particular player is inclined toward that.

I probably used to assume that a long time ago, but I don’t buy it in all cases.  Maybe Boyd is the mentoring type, maybe he isn’t.  But he should be good at getting 30 decent to good starts to help with the workload.

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1 minute ago, LooseGoose said:

I'll wager you a baklava it is.   Your choice of flavor.

The Baklava Shop

 

why do you think they'll be better?

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17 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I probably used to assume that a long time ago, but I don’t buy it in all cases.  Maybe Boyd is the mentoring type, maybe he isn’t.  But he should be good at getting 30 decent to good starts to help with the workload.

Funny thing is that coming out of the gate next year it's not going to be an inexperienced pitching staff other than Turnbull. Boyd, Norris, Zimmermann and even VerHagen have all been around for a while now, and if the first addition to the staff mid-season turns out to be Fulmer the same applies.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

why do you think they'll be better?

I believe that some of the 4A players will begin to be replaced with better players/prospects 

Our pitching staff should be having talented additions.

I think others that are here now will take steps forward.

I'm not delusional but i see 65-70 wins.

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9 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

I believe that some of the 4A players will begin to be replaced with better players/prospects 

Our pitching staff should be having talented additions.

I think others that are here now will take steps forward.

I'm not delusional but i see 65-70 wins.

i think they might win 60 if some things break their way.  but thats probably the best case scenario.

of course, they could surprise me and make some savvy offseason signings.  that could help them win a few more.

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It’s hard to be this bad for long so it’s easy to be better. They’ve had a ton of injuries, some of the younger players will get better, they’ll probably add some guys. It’s hard to lose 110 plus games two years in a row.   

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19 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

It’s hard to be this bad for long so it’s easy to be better. They’ve had a ton of injuries, some of the younger players will get better, they’ll probably add some guys. It’s hard to lose 110 plus games two years in a row.   

and there is a natural age effect also. When the players getting the most PAs in your line-up are over 30, your team will get worse each year unless you make replacements. If those players are younger than 27-28, they will almost all still be getting at least slightly better - that is just the the natural progression for the majority of players. That doesn't mean they will necessarily turn into useful major leaguers for a winning team, but they will still likely be a little better than they were the year before which is all it takes to push up the team's win total marginally.

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They will be better next year, because it's almost impossible not to be.   They might not really be better, but I think they'll win more games even if it's just random.

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Yeah at this level of play the random variations will probably skew upwards because they are already at rock bottom.

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1 hour ago, IdahoBert said:

It’s hard to be this bad for long so it’s easy to be better. They’ve had a ton of injuries, some of the younger players will get better, they’ll probably add some guys. It’s hard to lose 110 plus games two years in a row.   

It looks like it's never been done.  Baltimore might be the first to do so if they lose 6 more games this year after losing 115 last year.

The 1941-42 Philadelphia Phillies lost 111 and 109 games respectively.  The 1915-1916 Philadelphia Athletics lost 109 and 117 games respectively.  Those are the only close calls I can find.  

Speaking of the Phillies, those 1938-1942 teams were probably the worst era in MLB history.  Those five teams were a combined 225-534 for a .296 winning percentage.  That's the same winning percentage as the Tigers have this year. 

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2 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

It looks like it's never been done.  Baltimore might be the first to do so if they lose 6 more games this year after losing 115 last year.

The 1941-42 Philadelphia Phillies lost 111 and 109 games respectively.  The 1915-1916 Philadelphia Athletics lost 109 and 117 games respectively.  Those are the only close calls I can find.  

Speaking of the Phillies, those 1938-1942 teams were probably the worst era in MLB history.  Those five teams were a combined 225-534 for a .296 winning percentage.  That's the same winning percentage as the Tigers have this year. 

 It's really hard to stay at that level in any sport for an extended period of time.... That's what made the Millen era lions so incredibly bad... They did it for 8 years!

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4FEEC9D1-E8B2-4404-881E-5C3E0B9A4FC0.thumb.png.2e114623bd83cc1c1c58794279dbb485.png

Next year we’ll be so high up in the clouds we’ll have nosebleeds. The sky is the limit. 

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MIke: The Tigers have essentially wrapped up the #1 pick next year. What are the chances Austin Martin becomes that pick? Seems like he checks off the most boxes of the top guys.

 
1:01

Kiley McDaniel: I’d say Martin, Torkelson and Hancock are kinds three-way tied at this point. Tork is like Vaughn and won’t change much in terms of stock. Hancock could slide ahead if he’s healthy all year and shoves akin to Mize. Martin could be a Swanson/Bregman type if he keeps progressing and a strong season for him would trump the other two. Anyone else is a real longshot at this point, like maybe 10-15% at best?

 
1:01

Kiley McDaniel: I’ll say
Martin – 40%
Hancock – 30%
Torkelson – 25%
Other – 5%

 

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11 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

I'll wager you a baklava it is.   Your choice of flavor.

The Baklava Shop

 

Damn.  That's like triple dog daring.  

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