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IdahoBert

2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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46 minutes ago, kdog said:

any corrections they try and make in player development won't really be helpful for 3-4 years. And they are going to be terrible next year no matter what and no amount of spending is going to fix it. They are just so much farther away than 'trying to spend in 2021' and getting a new architect might save them from going into the dark ages again.

That makes sense. But they’ve been bad for three seasons in a row, really bad, and they went from being the worst team in 2003 of to World Series in 2006. I know that these are different contexts, but there’s a track record of rapid improvement being possible. 

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42 minutes ago, kdog said:

any corrections they try and make in player development won't really be helpful for 3-4 years. And they are going to be terrible next year no matter what and no amount of spending is going to fix it. They are just so much farther away than 'trying to spend in 2021' and getting a new architect might save them from going into the dark ages again.

Meaning the Avila regime, or any regime? I can easily imagine another regime with a data science-based background and a bolder approach to it could make quicker progress than this regime. Get the right people in there, and they might even make a dent on the major league club starting next year. After all, utilizing the right analytical tools is more than just about finding the right players. It's also about unlocking the potential in the players you have that mere eyeballs alone can't always determine. Who's to say that someone on our 40-man we don't think much of at all today couldn't flourish under the right tutelage? Did we know Eugenio Suarez was a 50 home run hitter, or that Robbie Ray was a strikeout machine, or that Avisial Garcia was solid enough to start for a playoff club, or that Willy Adames could be a four-win shortstop?  Just because this regime can't figure out how to unlock their potential doesn't mean nobody can.

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4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Meaning the Avila regime, or any regime? I can easily imagine another regime with a data science-based background and a bolder approach to it could make quicker progress than this regime. Get the right people in there, and they might even make a dent on the major league club starting next year. After all, utilizing the right analytical tools is more than just about finding the right players. It's also about unlocking the potential in the players you have that mere eyeballs alone can't always determine. Who's to say that someone on our 40-man we don't think much of at all today couldn't flourish under the right tutelage? Did we know Eugenio Suarez was a 50 home run hitter, or that Robbie Ray was a strikeout machine, or that Avisial Garcia was solid enough to start for a playoff club, or that Willy Adames could be a four-win shortstop?  Just because this regime can't figure out how to unlock their potential doesn't mean nobody can.

Agree 100%.  On paper our big league club and aside from some quality arms the farm system looks bad but who knows what untapped potential the guys have if you have the right personnel in place.   

Also there are a bunch of guys littered throughout every system that also have that untapped potential and again if you have the right people in place they can go find and try to acquire these guys.  

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The lottery ticket we gave up along with Ray...Domingo Leyba...put up an 870 OPS in AAA this year./ Henning may have to start harping on his trade now instead of Adames

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if you cant get chas to be the gm, how about trying to get kim ng away from major league baseball?  

she was with the dodgers for years, has a university of chicago degree, and was once thought to be an up and comer before she left for new york to work in the league office.

you potentially get someone from one of the most successful organizations in the league, and she's a poc woman so you instantly get cred (and deservedly so) for hiring her.

downside is she was turned down for four jobs so she might not be as great as her resume looks.

the tigers are in a position where they could take a chance.  if she wanted it.

that said, they'll stand pat with avila.  we all know this.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Meaning the Avila regime, or any regime? I can easily imagine another regime with a data science-based background and a bolder approach to it could make quicker progress than this regime. Get the right people in there, and they might even make a dent on the major league club starting next year. After all, utilizing the right analytical tools is more than just about finding the right players. It's also about unlocking the potential in the players you have that mere eyeballs alone can't always determine. Who's to say that someone on our 40-man we don't think much of at all today couldn't flourish under the right tutelage? Did we know Eugenio Suarez was a 50 home run hitter, or that Robbie Ray was a strikeout machine, or that Avisial Garcia was solid enough to start for a playoff club, or that Willy Adames could be a four-win shortstop?  Just because this regime can't figure out how to unlock their potential doesn't mean nobody can.

Well, except that the problem with Suarez and Adames was not that they languished unproductively in our system, it was that we were willing to trade young for old. Likewise the issue with Ray was just outright impatience. I don't remember anyone doubting Ray's upside was at least what we got back for him, the discussion at the time was not that we couldn't unlock his potential, it was that his schedule was a year or two further out than the FO was willing to wait for results.

I am absolutely concerned about the issues at the lower levels of the system though. There is a disconnect between the talent they claim they obtained in guys like Parker Meadows and their lack of progress.

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Your point about their utility at the time is certainly valid, but I gotta believe that if the front office had any inkling that Eugenio Suarez could be a fifty home run-hitting third baseman, they would never have traded him for Alfredo ****ing Simon.

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58 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if you cant get chas to be the gm, how about trying to get kim ng away from major league baseball?  

she was with the dodgers for years, has a university of chicago degree, and was once thought to be an up and comer before she left for new york to work in the league office.

you potentially get someone from one of the most successful organizations in the league, and she's a poc woman so you instantly get cred (and deservedly so) for hiring her.

downside is she was turned down for four jobs so she might not be as great as her resume looks.

the tigers are in a position where they could take a chance.  if she wanted it.

that said, they'll stand pat with avila.  we all know this.

You may be right on this, but I'd be more concerned about this one if there had already been a lady GM before her. There might have been more to it than turning down Kim Ng on the basis of her qualifications.

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Weren’t the Tigers the last to sign a black ballplayer?

Kim Ng would be a risk but it would really be cool if she were brought to Detroit. I’d already feel better about her in the job than about Avila. 

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The MLB app is not providing audio for tonights WC game in Oakland. In past years haven’t they provided audio through the entire playoffs and WS? What am I missing here?

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1 hour ago, 1776 said:

Weren’t the Tigers the last to sign a black ballplayer?

Kim Ng would be a risk but it would really be cool if she were brought to Detroit. I’d already feel better about her in the job than about Avila. 

Red Sox were last, 1959

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1 hour ago, leflore said:

Red Sox were last, 1959

But the Tigers were only one year ahead of them - Ozzie Virgil in 1958 and then Larry Doby at the end of his career in 1959. Virgil went to the minors in '59, came back to Det for 1960-61. I believe Jake Wood, who came up in 1961, was the 1st AA player signed by the Tigers to get to the majors with the team. Tigers signed him out of Delaware State in 1957. It is probably notable that Fetzer took control of the team in 1961. Walter Briggs was a notorious racial bigot.

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12 hours ago, chasfh said:

Drop the requirement to include a top prospect and this idea might seem more interesting to the Rockies.

Well why the F would we take on their bad contracts for nothing?

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7 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

A mix of under developed prospects and mid tier free agents will not make a 'respectable' product on the field.

It would very likely make them worse.

Isn't that just what we went through?

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To all the "let's just hire someone from a forward thinking organization" people, let's keep a couple things in mind. Seven years ago that was Avila. And let's not forget that is not guarentee for success. Guys like Paul DePodesta, who was Bill Beane's right hand man in the moneyball years, was hired to run a team and, frankly, wasn;t very good

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7 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

To all the "let's just hire someone from a forward thinking organization" people, let's keep a couple things in mind. Seven years ago that was Avila. And let's not forget that is not guarentee for success. Guys like Paul DePodesta, who was Bill Beane's right hand man in the moneyball years, was hired to run a team and, frankly, wasn;t very good

He’s no Jonah Hill

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Before he was hired, some people seemed to be assuming that Ausmus was a forward thinking person...I think his being young and college educated made people think that, but he seems to be very old school.   

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9 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

Stewart is already out of options?  He's only played one year in the majors, and was sent down on an injury rehab.  I guess I don't know the rules on how that works.

I would play Demeritte in RF over Reyes.  Demeritte profiles to be a higher OPS player, given his OBP and power potential.  Reyes is an empty .300 hitter.

Once a player is added to the 40-man roster, he gets 3 option years.  It doesn't start once he reaches the Majors, so a player can lose an option without ever playing a ML game.

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3 hours ago, 1776 said:

The MLB app is not providing audio for tonights WC game in Oakland. In past years haven’t they provided audio through the entire playoffs and WS? What am I missing here?

Interesting, I listened to the Oakland broadcast all night. Although, the sound kept mysteriously turning down so I had to re-turn it up every few innings. Could be that my phone is old and sucks or that the app sucks, which is no secret. I'm going to blame MLB. Hopefully the streams come back for you for the rest of the playoffs.

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2 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

4CE41953-0829-479D-8939-F8EB4CAA1DEF.thumb.png.e0f00627aee6f0b30ae75611ab2724d0.png

 

Well done. And if course that's the name of a movie starring Kevin Costner, who also played Detroit Tiger Billy Chapel.

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Decent opening paragraph from Fenech:

Quote

You’re aware the Tigers are rebuilding, but how aware of its realities, I’m not sure. You would have been happy with simply a respectable team on the field this season, but you’re unhappy because the games are, at times, unwatchable.

Two seasons into the Tigers’ rebuild, you are uncertain: You don’t trust ownership’s intentions or the front office’s plan, but you’re hopeful, because you only have one baseball team and hey, the prospects seem good.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2019/10/03/detroit-tigers-rebuild-farm-system-al-avila-chris-ilitch/3791654002/

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11 hours ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Well why the F would we take on their bad contracts for nothing?

I mean, come on. Do you really believe the Rockies will just hand over their #5 prospect in exchange for saving just $9 million on their payroll plus a random player who is such an anonymous nobody that you couldn't even get his name right?

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