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2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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23 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

I would stop following sports completely if ring counts were all that mattered to me.

I would too.  

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29 minutes ago, sabretooth said:

Absolutely right.  There isnt a "build WS winner" way vs "build a playoff team" way.  Its the same damn thing.

But teams do make "win one game today at the cost of losing two tomorrow" type moves all the time once they get close and that contributes to crash and burn hangover seasons.

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Be that as it may, the day to day variation of individual player performance is far greater than the actual skill differences between the teams competing against each other.

You could put these historically, objectively terrible Tigers teams into the post-season every year and they would win the damned thing periodically.

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19 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Be that as it may, the day to day variation of individual player performance is far greater than the actual skill differences between the teams competing against each other.

You could put these historically, objectively terrible Tigers teams into the post-season every year and they would win the damned thing periodically.

Yup - and you can have a consistently great team like the Braves and come away empty. There is no justice in sports.

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

Can we go back to Jennifer Aniston (championship) and Lisa Kudrow (playoffs)?  What is the current situation, Kathy Bates in Misery?

Do we have to use Jennifer Aniston and Lisa Kudrow?  Can we use ladies closer to my age, like Selena Gomez and Jennifer Lawrence?

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

Due to the fact that steroids are known for reducing recovery time in the muscles and body I think they have the most impact on pitchers and older players.    With pitchers it allows them to stay stronger deeper into games and recover every fifth day easier and with older players it allows them to work out like they did in their prime and recover from those work outs just as fast as they could in their prime which makes them stronger.          

Sounds like evidence of Verlander using steroids. 

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1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

When I have signed in using a paid subscription to Fangraphs, ALL of the bloody ads have remained.  Did they change this?  Admittedly it pissed me off so I stopped subscribing sometime ago.

There are two different subscriptions on FanGraphs.  You probably didn't get the right one that removes ads.  

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

That wouldn't be evidence.

Ok, "circumstantial" evidence, Mr. Lawyer.

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1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

When I have signed in using a paid subscription to Fangraphs, ALL of the bloody ads have remained.  Did they change this?  Admittedly it pissed me off so I stopped subscribing sometime ago.

They have two options, one gets rid of all the ads and the other gets rid of some of them.  I took the cheaper option.  It's better than the free option, but still annoying and I find myself using baseball-reference most of the time.  

The one subscription which is worth it for me is baseball-reference play index.  

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1 hour ago, sabretooth said:

I would stop following sports completely if ring counts were all that mattered to me.

In before keepleyland2 to tell you he feels sorry for you for feeling this way.

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26 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Do we have to use Jennifer Aniston and Lisa Kudrow?  Can we use ladies closer to my age, like Selena Gomez and Jennifer Lawrence?

Sure, why not?

Selena Gomez over Jennifer Lawrence.

What's the question again?

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20 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Ok, "circumstantial" evidence, Mr. Lawyer.

OK, now you got me interested in this: lead me through the circumstantial evidence that Justin Verlander is using.

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25 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

There are two different subscriptions on FanGraphs.  You probably didn't get the right one that removes ads.  

Concur. I'm paid up and I don't see ads.

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3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

OK, now you got me interested in this: lead me through the circumstantial evidence that Justin Verlander is using.

i think verlander's late career surge into otherwordly territory is circumstantial evidence that he may be taking some substances that enhance his performance.

i have zero real evidence to support that suspicion.  but his career is starting to resemble the same narrative arc as roger clemens' career.

or, he could be nolan ryan 2.0.

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think verlander's late career surge into otherwordly territory is circumstantial evidence that he may be taking some substances that enhance his performance.

i have zero real evidence to support that suspicion.  but his career is starting to resemble the same narrative arc as roger clemens' career.

or, he could be nolan ryan 2.0.

So, speaking as a litigator yourself, or at least as someone who is litigator-adjacent, are you confirming that the mere circumstance of Verlander's elevating his performance at his age makes it evident that he is using? Is it technically correct to allege such as circumstantially evident?

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3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

So, speaking as a litigator yourself, or at least as someone who is litigator-adjacent, are you confirming that the mere circumstance of Verlander's elevating his performance at his age makes it evident that he is using? Is it technically correct to allege such as circumstantially evident?

i do not think it makes it evident that he is using.  i think its merely a suspicion on some people's parts given the history of the game and verlander's career arc.

i mean, do you think jeff bagwell was using peds?  or pudge rodriguez?  i do.  but there's no evidence that they were.

and, for the record, i dont care if they were or not.  although i really really really hope verlander isnt because he's my favorite player of all time (non trammell division).

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19 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i do not think it makes it evident that he is using.  i think its merely a suspicion on some people's parts given the history of the game and verlander's career arc.

i mean, do you think jeff bagwell was using peds?  or pudge rodriguez?  i do.  but there's no evidence that they were.

and, for the record, i dont care if they were or not.  although i really really really hope verlander isnt because he's my favorite player of all time (non trammell division).

OK, so it's suspicious, not circumstantial evidence. Big difference.

That's what I thought, too.

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32 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think verlander's late career surge into otherwordly territory is circumstantial evidence that he may be taking some substances that enhance his performance.

i have zero real evidence to support that suspicion.  but his career is starting to resemble the same narrative arc as roger clemens' career.

or, he could be nolan ryan 2.0.

true, in the abstract you can make a reasonable case either way. Must pitchers lose Velo through an accumulation of arm injuries, JV has been extraordinarily lucky in not suffering arm injuries through his career - in that way he has been like Ryan. But that would mean that like Ryan he must be an extreme genetic outlier - which is certainly possible. From the statistical standpoint - it's a much more probable argument to say he has been juicing. Even his protestations about other people cheating don't mean that much - look at Lance Armstrong. 

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47 minutes ago, chasfh said:

OK, now you got me interested in this: lead me through the circumstantial evidence that Justin Verlander is using.

It wasn't me who laid it out, it was someone else.  

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38 minutes ago, chasfh said:

So, speaking as a litigator yourself, or at least as someone who is litigator-adjacent, are you confirming that the mere circumstance of Verlander's elevating his performance at his age makes it evident that he is using? Is it technically correct to allege such as circumstantially evident?

This is the reason why circumstantial evidence doesn't hold up in court.  

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15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

OK, so it's suspicious, not circumstantial evidence. Big difference.

That's what I thought, too.

Aren't they both the same thing?  

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1 minute ago, bobrob2004 said:

This is the reason why circumstantial evidence doesn't hold up in court.  

 

somethings in life you only care about which is more likely, obviously sometimes you need to know which is really true.

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