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IdahoBert

2019-2020 OFFSEASON DISCUSSION THREAD

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8 hours ago, IdahoBert said:

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Why so soon?  Because the future is the only thing worth talking about. 

I'm here to talk about the past.  In my day, sonny, everything was better.  Even the things that were worse were better.  And stay off of my lawn!

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41 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

So who we taking in the Rule 5 draft?

Draft all the players.

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Just now, Microline133 said:

Luis Medina

Awful idea.  I wouldn't want him on an old man softball team.

image.png.6de91799f44ce070a0f6b2a7a10ff792.png

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Arizona Fall League starts tonight.  Mike Rabelo, Issac Paredes, Derek Hill and company.

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This current season is an old dog that just needs to be put down. And it’s not even a beloved dog at that.

It showed up on your porch on a rainy day in late March and after an initial honeymoon it has consistently peed and pooped on the floor and bit your kids. You’ve even had big vet bills, but your kids wouldn’t understand. Sometimes when you see your kids playing with it in the yard it even makes you smile  

If you lived on a farm you’d just solve the problem but as it is you’re compelled to let nature take its course, which can’t arrive soon enough. 

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37 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The dog also farts a lot.

On a farm Dwight Schrute would just do what has to be done. We can’t. 

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4 hours ago, Casimir said:

Awful idea.  I wouldn't want him on an old man softball team.

image.png.6de91799f44ce070a0f6b2a7a10ff792.png

had the best walk-up song--Funky Cold Medina.

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5 hours ago, Microline133 said:

Luis Medina

There's your hard-throwing right-hander with control problems!

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8 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

Well, most of the Tigers players had "off" seasons.  

Well, most of the Tigers players took the season off.

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Three Needs: Detroit Tigers

Only 3?

Quote

 

By Jeff Todd | September 19, 2019 at 9:06am CDT

We’re bringing back our “Three Needs” series, in which we take a look at the chief issues to be addressed for clubs that have fallen out of contention. We started with the Mariners and will now turn to a Tigers club that is finishing out a brutal season …

1. Work The Wire Aggressively

We’re focused here on reasonably attainable goals in a given offseason, not just identifying the very worst parts of a bad roster. And truth be told, it’s a bit of a fool’s errand to look too closely at specific areas of need. The reality of the situation in Detroit is that the organization is about as devoid of present MLB talent as any in recent memory. When a team is this bad, it’s not hard to identify areas to get better. Rather than focusing primarily on filling gaps, the approach this winter should be to accumulate as much talent as possible.

With the worst record in baseball, the Tigers not only have the first pick in next year’s draft (and in the upcoming Rule 5 draft), but top waiver priority from now until thirty days have elapsed in the 2020 campaign. That represents the first bite at the apple on any player who’s sent onto the wire. It’s a nifty benefit — if you’re willing and able to do the 40-man roster maneuvering needed to make it work.

Any front office must take care to protect their own prospects and manage the 40-man. The Tigers are no different. But a willingness to be aggressive with marginal veterans can help create additional openings. Having already sunken this far, the club can’t worry too much about holding open roster spots for lower-ceiling talent.

While GM Al Avila certainly has placed some claims since taking the helm — including a few quite recently — he’s nowhere near as apt to utilize that mechanism as, say, Giants president of baseball operations Farhan Zaidi. There are conceivable benefits to avoiding too much churn, particularly during the season. But working the waiver wire — both by claiming and in some cases attempting to outright previously claimed players — offers an intriguing path to securing the rights to interesting players and obtaining a first-hand look.

2. Don’t Shy Away From Trading Matthew Boyd

Hanging onto Matthew Boyd at the trade deadline may or may not have been wise. It’s impossible to pass judgment from the outside without knowing what was actually available in trade talks. Though it stinks for the Detroit organization that the 28-year-old has gone on to post a suboptimal second half, that doesn’t mean we should re-litigate the trade deadline call without further information.

So, what now? It’s easy to presume that the Tigers have no choice but to hang onto Boyd and hope he shows better in the first half of 2019, creating a new deadline opportunity. And that may be the likeliest outcome. But the possibility of a deal shouldn’t be foreclosed in advance.

It’s true, Boyd did take a step back over his past dozen starts. But he didn’t collapse. He has still averaged better than eleven strikeouts per nine in that span. While the walks and homers are up significantly, his physical skills don’t appear to have eroded. There’s no reason to believe he’s hurt. Most of the same things that made him so suddenly interesting remain in place, such as a 14.0% swinging-strike rate, 3.56 SIERA, and three years of affordable arbitration control.

When contenders scan the free agent market for options, they’re not going to see that kind of upside — at least, for anything less than a whopping financial investment. Boyd won’t require that kind of commitment. The Detroit club shouldn’t settle for just anything, but ought to be shopping a talented pitcher who is rather unlikely to be in his prime and in a Tigers uniform when the team is next competitive.

3. Consider A Multi-Year Free Agent Signing

Wait, what?! Yeah, I’m advocating for selling off the team’s best remaining MLB asset and generally abandoning any thought of near-term contention. But that doesn’t mean the Tigers should be in pure tank mode. The point is that they ought to be looking for ways to maximize opportunities to add value to the organization. And that can include adding MLB players.

The Tigers are three winters removed from a multi-year free-agent signing. You have to go way back to that 2015-16 offseason to find any big spending. There’s good reason for that, to be sure. But there are also reasons to consider the potential upside in exploring larger deals again.

No, I’m not saying the Tigers should be signing the next Justin Upton or Jordan Zimmermann deal. But continuing to ink one-year, fill-in veterans makes for limited upside. After committing $15.5MM, the club wasn’t able to cash in any of its most recent one-year signings (Tyson Ross, Jordy Mercer, Matt Moore, Josh Harrison) because all of these veterans ended up being hurt. And I need not remind Tigers fans of the disappointing outcomes of the rental sales of J.D. Martinez and Nicholas Castellanos.

The Tigers’ payroll obligations are falling off a cliff, with nothing committed from this point forward aside from the sunk costs of Zimmermann and Miguel Cabrera (along with one more payout to Prince Fielder). With many organizations showing a reduced willingness to give the extra year, there could be some opportunity to draw interesting free agents to Detroit. That could open the door to a class of players the Tigers wouldn’t otherwise have access to while also increasing the potential return that could be realized in a trade if things go well. Plus, spreading the risk of injuries over multiple seasons isn’t without its merit. With free payroll to work with, the Tigers should have greater risk appetite and at least pursue some bold strategies.

 

1.  Makes sense.  Take advantage of whatever might be free for the taking and don't worry about cutting someone like Jose Cisnero in order to do so.

2.  If the market is there, yes, do it.  If not, no worry.  There is still going to be value in having Boyd around when the youngsters start trickling up.

3.  Hopefully this market holds true if/when the pitching prospects graduate and filling positional holes is the last piece to playoff contention.  While I can see the Tigers holding pat on the positional players going into next season with 12 of 13 spots inked in, I can see adding another bat or two (1B?  OF?  C?  3B?) in order to take some of the pressure off of the younger bats for next season.  Cabrera as the lone veteran bat (and I think we can use bat loosely here) is a tough situation.

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24 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Three Needs: Detroit Tigers

Only 3?

1.  Makes sense.  Take advantage of whatever might be free for the taking and don't worry about cutting someone like Jose Cisnero in order to do so.

2.  If the market is there, yes, do it.  If not, no worry.  There is still going to be value in having Boyd around when the youngsters start trickling up.

3.  Hopefully this market holds true if/when the pitching prospects graduate and filling positional holes is the last piece to playoff contention.  While I can see the Tigers holding pat on the positional players going into next season with 12 of 13 spots inked in, I can see adding another bat or two (1B?  OF?  C?  3B?) in order to take some of the pressure off of the younger bats for next season.  Cabrera as the lone veteran bat (and I think we can use bat loosely here) is a tough situation.

  1. This does make sense, although I could see Ilitch/Avila eschewing it in favor of continuing to run low-upside minor leaguers onto the field in 2020.
  2. I don't see them trading Boyd because asking for the world and not getting it at the deadline, then trading him in the offseason after he had a poor second half for what would surely be a so-so return at best, would be like slapping their own face, and hard. I can envision Boyd staying here until he's DFA'ed or granted free agency, a la Bobby Higginson. Although I'm unclear on what you see as the value of Boyd when the youngsters start trickling up?
  3. The author makes a good case but I don't see the Tigers hampering themselves with any significant long term deals for well above average major leaguers for at least two and maybe three or even four years. They simply don't have the supporting cast to justify that kind of signing, and flip side, few good big leaguers who want to win would come here to lose big for their first two or more years.

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

Three Needs: Detroit Tigers

Only 3?

1.  Makes sense.  Take advantage of whatever might be free for the taking and don't worry about cutting someone like Jose Cisnero in order to do so.

2.  If the market is there, yes, do it.  If not, no worry.  There is still going to be value in having Boyd around when the youngsters start trickling up.

3.  Hopefully this market holds true if/when the pitching prospects graduate and filling positional holes is the last piece to playoff contention.  While I can see the Tigers holding pat on the positional players going into next season with 12 of 13 spots inked in, I can see adding another bat or two (1B?  OF?  C?  3B?) in order to take some of the pressure off of the younger bats for next season.  Cabrera as the lone veteran bat (and I think we can use bat loosely here) is a tough situation.

Jeff Todd still lives in his parent's basement.  Why are we listening to him?  1 and 3 are pretty obvious.  Avila has already been scouring the scrap heap, as evidenced by the lottery tickets he's picked up over the last 60 days.  A few of us have been advocating signing a bat and taking advantage of a market that favors teams right now.  Target 1B and/or 2B.  

I think trading Boyd right now doesn't make a lot of sense.  If he wasn't valuable at the trade deadline to another team while in the throes of a pennant race, why would he and his 4.50 ERA be more attractive now?  MLB will have to address their baseball fiasco next season, which should result in a decrease in HR's.  Let him re-establish some value and then consider it.  In the meantime, he gives us a fighting chance every 5 days and can serve as a mentor to Mize, Manning, Skubal, etc...  He's our frickin' Kenny Rogers!

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btw, the tank is over after this season.  Anything less than signficant progress in both player development and W-L next season and the Motor City Tiggers will incur my wrath.

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2 hours ago, chasfh said:
  1. This does make sense, although I could see Ilitch/Avila eschewing it in favor of continuing to run low-upside minor leaguers onto the field in 2020.
  2. I don't see them trading Boyd because asking for the world and not getting it at the deadline, then trading him in the offseason after he had a poor second half for what would surely be a so-so return at best, would be like slapping their own face, and hard. I can envision Boyd staying here until he's DFA'ed or granted free agency, a la Bobby Higginson. Although I'm unclear on what you see as the value of Boyd when the youngsters start trickling up?
  3. The author makes a good case but I don't see the Tigers hampering themselves with any significant long term deals for well above average major leaguers for at least two and maybe three or even four years. They simply don't have the supporting cast to justify that kind of signing, and flip side, few good big leaguers who want to win would come here to lose big for their first two or more years.

I think it'd be good to have an experienced arm or two in the rotation when the pitching prospects make their ways up.  Experience isn't everything, but it'd be nice to know 30 or 60 starts are taken care of with a reasonable chance of competing.

To an extent, I think that lack of experience hurts the offense a bit, but I think the larger part to that is there are some guys that (1) aren't ready and/of (2) have regressed.

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28 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Jeff Todd still lives in his parent's basement.  Why are we listening to him?  1 and 3 are pretty obvious.  Avila has already been scouring the scrap heap, as evidenced by the lottery tickets he's picked up over the last 60 days.  A few of us have been advocating signing a bat and taking advantage of a market that favors teams right now.  Target 1B and/or 2B.  

I think trading Boyd right now doesn't make a lot of sense.  If he wasn't valuable at the trade deadline to another team while in the throes of a pennant race, why would he and his 4.50 ERA be more attractive now?  MLB will have to address their baseball fiasco next season, which should result in a decrease in HR's.  Let him re-establish some value and then consider it.  In the meantime, he gives us a fighting chance every 5 days and can serve as a mentor to Mize, Manning, Skubal, etc...  He's our frickin' Kenny Rogers!

I don't know Jeff Todd's living arrangements, nor do I care.  I thought the article was reasonable and worth posting.

26 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

btw, the tank is over after this season.  Anything less than signficant progress in both player development and W-L next season and the Motor City Tiggers will incur my wrath.

I don't know that anyone knows that the tanks is over.  How is it over?  Based on what?

I would expect some improvement from some of the players, but who really knows who will improve and who won't?  Remember when everyone was clamoring for Rogers and CastroW to be promoted earlier in the season?  They ain't looked so good at the plate.  It doesn't mean they should be written off, but there's a lot of unknown to sift through.

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2 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I think it'd be good to have an experienced arm or two in the rotation when the pitching prospects make their ways up.

I like the theory here, but in practice a starting pitcher is either in the rotation or out. You can't easily share time or positions to give a guy innings like you can with a position player. We have 5 starters on the 25 now who have the inside track to the 2020 rotation  and the guy you might want to move to the pen to make room, VerHagen, has already shown much better value working on a 5 day schedule that on call out of the pen. So you don't have too much room to work with. I could see them bringing in one guy.  Unless they move Boyd of course.

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