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9/8 Detroit Lions at Arizona Cardinals

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I thought the coaching staff made a number of mistakes yesterday.  There was at least one (and I think there was another too) where the Lions accepted a penalty that gave the Card's another chance.  The one I'm remember had them at 4th and 2, but there was a formation penalty which pushed them back 5 yards, but gave them another chance, which they promptly converted.

I also feel like both defense and offense went into "prevent" mode too soon in the game.

But I think the biggest problem was the OL.  Not enough protection for Stafford often, and very look push in the running game, especially short yardage situations.

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Also, what the **** happened on the punt block!?! You cannot let that happen in the NFL. 

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51 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

I thought the coaching staff made a number of mistakes yesterday.  There was at least one (and I think there was another too) where the Lions accepted a penalty that gave the Card's another chance.  The one I'm remember had them at 4th and 2, but there was a formation penalty which pushed them back 5 yards, but gave them another chance, which they promptly converted.

I also feel like both defense and offense went into "prevent" mode too soon in the game.

But I think the biggest problem was the OL.  Not enough protection for Stafford often, and very look push in the running game, especially short yardage situations.

Something doesn't sound right and I don't recall this. There is no way the Lions would accept a penalty instead of taking the turnover on downs.

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I don't think the Lions necessarily played prevent defensive coverage but their pass rushers were tired and didn't touch Murray in the 4th quarter. They also faced 82 plays and the way Arizona played you know they were always going to be in hurry up offense. Knowing that, you have to be aggressive and not just settle for killing the clock and punting. You're the Lions, not the Eagles or Patriots. You can't play it safe. 

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Something doesn't sound right and I don't recall this. There is no way the Lions would accept a penalty instead of taking the turnover on downs.

image.thumb.png.9005dd9c92978a0ca9d25d352f21072b.png

If the Lions declined the penalty it would have been 4th and 1.  They accepted it so it was 3rd and 14, but then got a "Big Play."

This was beginning of the 4th qtr, Cards down 24-9.  The only think I can think of is that they assumed the Cards would go for it on 4th and 1 and figured they would have a better shot 3rd and 14.

EDIT TO ADD: I think I see the confusion... When I said it was 4th and 2 (which actually it was 4th and 1) I meant that was what it would have been if they DIDN'T accept the penalty... not that that was down-distance at the start of the play.  Yeah, there's no reason in the universe to accept the penalty if they didn't convert on 4th down.

 

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3 hours ago, kdog said:

I don't think the Lions necessarily played prevent defensive coverage but their pass rushers were tired and didn't touch Murray in the 4th quarter. They also faced 82 plays and the way Arizona played you know they were always going to be in hurry up offense. Knowing that, you have to be aggressive and not just settle for killing the clock and punting. You're the Lions, not the Eagles or Patriots. You can't play it safe. 

Pat Kirwan just made a similar point. Basically, how many pass rushers are physically capable of rushing the QB eight times in two minutes? Good question. 

But then again, if the Cards had to go 80, or 90, yards to score, rather than just 60 (after an 11 yard punt), it might be a different story. 

They did just enough to leave with a tie. 

Edit: Snacks tweeted an apology and said the loss was on him. Apparently after Kyler Murray pointed out in postgame that Snacks was on the sideline for much of the 4th quarter, and speculated it was because he didn’t have the conditioning to keep up the pace after missing the preseason. 

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They need to use play action more, the rest of the league uses it so much more than the Lions.  This shows right here how much better Stafford is using it.

Also I don't want to hear the excuse that they need to establish a good running game first cause there have been studies done that show there is no correlation between how good your running game is and play action game is.  

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Another thing not getting talked about is Kennard had 3 sacks. The defensive line as a whole had 5 sacks and Murray rushed for only 3 carries and 13 yards. Stafford had 3 carries for 22 yards. The defensive line did get to Murray, and just as important, kept him contained. Seemed like they may have gotten gassed in the 4th. It's not only the dropbacks but Murray was running sideline to sideline and spinning around and running backwards. There were plays where the defensive lineman had to of chased him 20 yards. 

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4 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Pat Kirwan just made a similar point. Basically, how many pass rushers are physically capable of rushing the QB eight times in two minutes? Good question. 

part of a GM's job is build enough depth to be able to rotate guys. They were already subbing for Harrison - were they already at the end of the bench?

Also, it's a team game, there are times your offense needs to find a way to gut out some 1st downs so your D can get off the field for a while.....

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46 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

part of a GM's job is build enough depth to be able to rotate guys. They were already subbing for Harrison - were they already at the end of the bench?

Also, it's a team game, there are times your offense needs to find a way to gut out some 1st downs so your D can get off the field for a while.....

Agreed. Hand was injured, and Harrison (along with Flowers and Daniels) missed the entire preseason. 

The bigger issue, clearly, is that the OL is still not settled and is the weakest unit on the team. Do you hope that Decker can get his head right and keep Stafford from another strip sack? Or do you try to pick up chunks of yards on the ground?

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2 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

They need to use play action more, the rest of the league uses it so much more than the Lions.  This shows right here how much better Stafford is using it.

Also I don't want to hear the excuse that they need to establish a good running game first cause there have been studies done that show there is no correlation between how good your running game is and play action game is.  

When Stafford is under center, it's a run play. When he's in the shotgun, it's a pass play. Or at least a high percentage of the time. 

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9 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

When Stafford is under center, it's a run play. When he's in the shotgun, it's a pass play. Or at least a high percentage of the time. 

It does certainly feel that way. I'd be interested in seeing the actual stats though and how it compares to the rest of the rest of the league. 

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9 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

It does certainly feel that way. I'd be interested in seeing the actual stats though and how it compares to the rest of the rest of the league. 

I don't know the count, since I wasn't counting, but the Lions absolutely did run the ball from the shotgun enough times to avoid being predictable. I know because I hate seeing the ball run from the shotgun so I notice it every time.

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10 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Baby steps

from 0-16 to 0-0-16!!!!

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7 hours ago, Jason_R said:

Pat Kirwan just made a similar point. Basically, how many pass rushers are physically capable of rushing the QB eight times in two minutes? Good question. 

But then again, if the Cards had to go 80, or 90, yards to score, rather than just 60 (after an 11 yard punt), it might be a different story. 

They did just enough to leave with a tie. 

Edit: Snacks tweeted an apology and said the loss was on him. Apparently after Kyler Murray pointed out in postgame that Snacks was on the sideline for much of the 4th quarter, and speculated it was because he didn’t have the conditioning to keep up the pace after missing the preseason. 

the cardinals were in full on thrown on every down and harrison is a 100% run stopper.  wouldnt surprise me if he sat most of the 4th because they wanted more interior pass rushing.

so where was $10 million man mike daniels?

they really missed Hand.  i hope he gets healthy soon.

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14 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

part of a GM's job is build enough depth to be able to rotate guys. They were already subbing for Harrison - were they already at the end of the bench?

Also, it's a team game, there are times your offense needs to find a way to gut out some 1st downs so your D can get off the field for a while.....

I'm purely guessing here... but maybe Harrison was being subbed out because they needed/wanted faster DLs who could contain/chase Murray?

I 100% agree on your second point.  One more 1st down in the 4th qtr seals the game.

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19 hours ago, RedRamage said:

image.thumb.png.9005dd9c92978a0ca9d25d352f21072b.png

If the Lions declined the penalty it would have been 4th and 1.  They accepted it so it was 3rd and 14, but then got a "Big Play."

This was beginning of the 4th qtr, Cards down 24-9.  The only think I can think of is that they assumed the Cards would go for it on 4th and 1 and figured they would have a better shot 3rd and 14.

EDIT TO ADD: I think I see the confusion... When I said it was 4th and 2 (which actually it was 4th and 1) I meant that was what it would have been if they DIDN'T accept the penalty... not that that was down-distance at the start of the play.  Yeah, there's no reason in the universe to accept the penalty if they didn't convert on 4th down.

 

I think I would always take 3rd and 14 over 4th and 1.

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On 9/10/2019 at 11:03 AM, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I think I would always take 3rd and 14 over 4th and 1.

It would really depend on the situation. 4th and 1 from your own 2 yard line, up by 2 points with 3 minutes to go? 4th and 1 from the opposing 5 yard line, down by 2 with a minute to go? Too many situations to have a correct answer. I did see a stat where it showed more teams should go for it on 4th and short, even if I don't agree with it.

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