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GOOD LORD BOSTON MIGHT FIRE DAVE DOMBROWSKI!!!!

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27 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Sometimes he just got plain lucky, too.  Couldn't get Aurilia to sign in Detroit and went with Guillen as plan B.

 

12 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Who was available because of a failed physical in a Guillen to CLE trade that made that deal fall apart....

 

I think it was Omar Vizquel. To go from 119 losses to a WS appearance in three years you need a few breaks. This was a huge one.

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1 hour ago, Oblong said:

Makes you wonder if the game has passed him by?   To paraphrase Billy Beane, will his **** work anymore?  Teams seem more focused on holding on their cheaper players, FA is starting to wane... 

The DD method.... trade prospects.  Sign FA.  Crappy Bullpen

 

I think this sums it up best. Once GM's began gripping their prospects DD used this wave to trade his for veterans but once the cupboard gets bare you can only spend $$$ and when that runs out..he's run out...

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Ģ

17 minutes ago, socaltiger said:

I think this sums it up best. Once GM's began gripping their prospects DD used this wave to trade his for veterans but once the cupboard gets bare you can only spend $$$ and when that runs out..he's run out...

Oh it works. And Dombrowski will be back very soon and he will win.

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2 minutes ago, Tim Mitchell said:

Ģ

Oh it works. And Dombrowski will be back very soon and he will win.

I’ll take him

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

Candelario needs to show something quickly.  He's been bumped from 3B and will be 26 years old next Opening Day.

Yup. He will be given 1B until the break. If he doesn't perform he will get the Ziggy.

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Question... been busy today 

have any Detroit beat writers commented?

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3 hours ago, belcherboy said:

There was well deserved criticism of Dave from time to time, but the guy knew how to build a winner. Unfortunately, he often leaves the cupboard empty when he leaves town.  Regardless, I would welcome him back to Detroit with open arms if he were at all interested. Even if we had to swallow a big chunk of Al's contract.

If I were close to death and I yearned to see a World Series win before I went, future consequences be damned, I could be talked into supporting the return of Dave Dombrowski.

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3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If I were close to death and I yearned to see a World Series win before I went, future consequences be damned, I could be talked into supporting the return of Dave Dombrowski.

That's the rub. Do you want a team that builds from the ground up, or do you want someone who hires mercenaries that will likely cost you 5-10 years of your minor league development, but give you an immediate shot at the World Series?

I live near Atlanta now, and am simply amazed at how they've built the Braves through the minor leagues. They could easily be a playoff team for many years to come, and I think they stand a DARN good chance at winning a World Series this year. I'd love to have their system in Detroit right now. They are young, well developed and exciting to watch.

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The Tigers were competitive pretty much from 2006 to 2014. They were among the top 3-5 in baseball in wins during that time. It's not like he just loaded up for one run. Was Verlander the only hold over on the 2012 World Series team from the 2006 team? He completely re-shaped that 2006 roster into another World Series roster with only one losing season. He did make the shrewd move of trading Granderson for a young Scherzer.

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If Ilitch wants to win he hires Dave. Name one position player on our club that would start on ANY other MLB club. The worst part is, there's nothing coming on the position side. Nothing. Zip. Get real. We do have pitching coming and that is a plus. And you know what, if Dave were to come I for one, as a fan,could give a bleep who Dave trades. Because we all know and have confidence that Dave wins. I want Dave Dombrowski in charge of my baseball team.

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14 minutes ago, belcherboy said:

That's the rub. Do you want a team that builds from the ground up, or do you want someone who hires mercenaries that will likely cost you 5-10 years of your minor league development, but give you an immediate shot at the World Series?

I live near Atlanta now, and am simply amazed at how they've built the Braves through the minor leagues. They could easily be a playoff team for many years to come, and I think they stand a DARN good chance at winning a World Series this year. I'd love to have their system in Detroit right now. They are young, well developed and exciting to watch.

This ownership has demonstrated they are comfortable with the boom-or-bust approach that stipulates that we must endure multiple seasons being among the worst in baseball to get a chance to become one of the better teams for a while. It failed the first time around, and succeeded to a degree after the second time because that was jump-started by the urgent throwing around of money and prospects in a race against time for the owner. I'm not completely sure whether this third time through the suck cycle will yield any playoff teams, but I do know this: if we fall short of that this time around, this ownership won't think twice about sending us through yet another cycle of extreme suck to try to achieve something like that again far down the line. Then rinse and repeat.

You young fans here: are you up for a lifetime of that?

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12 minutes ago, Tim Mitchell said:

If Ilitch wants to win he hires Dave. Name one position player on our club that would start on ANY other MLB club. The worst part is, there's nothing coming on the position side. Nothing. Zip. Get real. We do have pitching coming and that is a plus. And you know what, if Dave were to come I for one, as a fan,could give a bleep who Dave trades. Because we all know and have confidence that Dave wins. I want Dave Dombrowski in charge of my baseball team.

Channel your inner Chris Ilitch and suppose you end up hiring Dave. In practical terms, starting from were we are now, how would you see us becoming a winner more or less immediately? How do you think we get the pieces in place to supercharge the current timetable?

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1 minute ago, chasfh said:

This ownership has demonstrated they are comfortable with the boom-or-bust approach that stipulates that we must endure multiple seasons being among the worst in baseball to get a chance to become one of the better teams for a while. It failed the first time around, and succeeded to a degree after the second time because that was jump-started by the urgent throwing around of money and prospects in a race against time for the owner. I'm not completely sure whether this third time through the suck cycle will yield any playoff teams, but I do know this: if we fall short of that this time around, this ownership won't think twice about sending us through yet another cycle of extreme suck to try to achieve something like that again far down the line.

You young fans here: are you up for a lifetime of that?

I'm not a young fan anymore (I grew up during the 1980's), but I've found many of the younger fans (those in their 30's and below to elementary aged kids) don't care about baseball unless the team is good. They will go to an occasional game during the season, but barely pay much attention to the team until later in the season if the  team is contending for playoff spot. Basically, they don't care until the team is playing well.

 

So, I don't think many of the younger fans care much. It's kind of sad from my perspective. I use to collect baseball cards, watch TWIBB Saturday mornings, and check the box score in the newspaper.  Today, most kids I talk to (I'm around a lot of kids every week) can tell you a few players on the team, but they don't follow them very closely. They love to go to games, but parents just don't have the kind of money to take them to more than a few games a season. They will watch the playoffs, but don't really care until that time.

 

 

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Look. Do you want Sparky, or would you keep  Les? DD did it in 2002. Do you feel fan interest would be a tad better or worse if Dave were in charge? How about you? Watch more games? Maybe go to a few? Uh huh. As I thought. 

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3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Channel your inner Chris Ilitch and suppose you end up hiring Dave. In practical terms, starting from were we are now, how would you see us becoming a winner more or less immediately? How do you think we get the pieces in place to supercharge the current timetable?

Isn't this the same situation that Dave walked into in 2002 with his first stint with the Tigers? Maybe he should just does the same thing? 🤷‍♂️

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23 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

The Tigers were competitive pretty much from 2006 to 2014. They were among the top 3-5 in baseball in wins during that time. It's not like he just loaded up for one run. Was Verlander the only hold over on the 2012 World Series team from the 2006 team? He completely re-shaped that 2006 roster into another World Series roster with only one losing season. He did make the shrewd move of trading Granderson for a young Scherzer.

So very true.  They had a very low spot in 2008-2009 which they recovered from nicely because they managed their assets and spent a lot of cash. 

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The only way he could fix the Tigers, would be through three offseasons of free agency.  No one left to trade that you wouldn't want to be part of a winning core.

Most anyone can build a team that way--just takes the willingness of the owner.

 

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6 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

The only way he could fix the Tigers, would be through three offseasons of free agency.  No one left to trade that you wouldn't want to be part of a winning core.

Most anyone can build a team that way--just takes the willingness of the owner.

 

Dave could turn Casey Mize into an MVP hitter and an Ace in one off season.

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27 minutes ago, belcherboy said:

Isn't this the same situation that Dave walked into in 2002 with his first stint with the Tigers? Maybe he should just does the same thing? 🤷‍♂️

It kind of is, right? And then it took us four years to earn a wild card berth, and another five years after that to start winning divisions (and in a weak division). So we didn't start winning consistently for almost a decade after Dombrowski came on board, and even that was mainly because of owner fiat, and by the time DD got booted, the franchise has been laid waste to up and down the system for years to come. And now we have this.

I asked the question because it sounds like the main frustration fans have is that we're very terrible right now and people want to get our rebuild back into a winner fast-tracked. I'd sure like to see it go faster, too, but I don't see how bringing Dombrowski aboard is going to accelerate our current timetable of early to mid 2020s, if for no other reason than there is nothing for him to work with to get us there right away. And if sustainability of winning is important at all, then we will almost certainly not get that with Dombrowski, either, at least based on his available track record. I'm not sure we have a better chance of sustainability with Al Avila, of course, but I also wouldn't say we have a worse chance, either.

Long story short, I'm not sure what problem bringing Dombrowski aboard would solve, especially in the short term.

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3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Long story short, I'm not sure what problem bringing Dombrowski aboard would solve, especially in the short term.

I think everyone is romanticizing his time here, which was largely positive--mostly due to the owner's willingness to spend and the mandate to "win now."  And because we have very little confidence in the current GM and ownership situation.

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1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

I think everyone is romanticizing his time here, which was largely positive--mostly due to the owner's willingness to spend and the mandate to "win now."  And because we have very little confidence in the current GM and ownership situation.

I think you've nailed it. It was a special time due the the circumstances that preceded and then surrounded it: historically terrible franchise transforms itself into a winner, and damn the costs, in a vain attempt to win one ring for our owner and lifelong Tigers fan before he dies. That's hella romantic.

 

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55 minutes ago, belcherboy said:

I'm not a young fan anymore (I grew up during the 1980's), but I've found many of the younger fans (those in their 30's and below to elementary aged kids) don't care about baseball unless the team is good. They will go to an occasional game during the season, but barely pay much attention to the team until later in the season if the  team is contending for playoff spot. Basically, they don't care until the team is playing well.

 

So, I don't think many of the younger fans care much. It's kind of sad from my perspective. I use to collect baseball cards, watch TWIBB Saturday mornings, and check the box score in the newspaper.  Today, most kids I talk to (I'm around a lot of kids every week) can tell you a few players on the team, but they don't follow them very closely. They love to go to games, but parents just don't have the kind of money to take them to more than a few games a season. They will watch the playoffs, but don't really care until that time.

 

 

I don't know that things have changed that much.  Most of my friends growing up were the same way just casually following the sport.  Not many were obsessed with baseball like I was.  Most adults aren't interested unless the team is winning either.  And this team makes it really difficult even for me.  I pay attention to what's going on with the team out of habit, but it really isn't fun at all this year.  

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I personally would take 3-4 years of sucking really bad to turn into the Astros, Cubs, and even to a certain extent the Royals. The Royals window turned out to be very short, but they did win it all.  We didn't win anything in the 90's, and we basically an average team that whole decade. Then we really sucked during the Randy Smith years, and then 8 years of good to great. I'll take 4 years of very bad to go through an 8-10 stretch of very good. I think the hope is that by the time the Tiger's are good, the Astros, Cubs, Braves, etc will be in or close to a cycle of bad.

The problem is I don't see the Tigers being able to do what the Cubs, Astros, and Braves are doing. I feel a decade of the 90's coming on all over again. A few good years, a few down years, winning nothing.

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

 

Long story short, I'm not sure what problem bringing Dombrowski aboard would solve, especially in the short term.

Same reason they bought in Gardenhire in a losing situation, experience and a proven track record. On name alone, it'll bring back some of the fanbase. 

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