GOOD LORD BOSTON MIGHT FIRE DAVE DOMBROWSKI!!!!

[ROMAD1 2,245]

1 minute ago, Casimir said:

When Dombrowski is elected into the hall of fame, will his plaque be altered to feature a brightly colored polo?

He's going to be CEO of the new Montreal franchise and his plaque will be in French. 

[Casimir 1,232]

1 minute ago, ROMAD1 said:

He's going to be CEO of the new Montreal franchise and his plaque will be in French. 

So the polo colour will be sacre bleu?

[1776 230]

7 hours ago, Buddha said:

billy beane can come over to dombrowski's house and look at all this world series rings.

It would probably be a lot easier for Dave to get over to Beane’s house in that he has all this free time on his hands after getting fired...again.

Free spending owners have made Dave look an awful lot better than he really is. Nothing he puts together is sustainable. 

Wasn’t it Boston years back that tried to lure Beane away from Oakland for more money? 

[Biff Mayhem 567]

51 minutes ago, Casimir said:

So the polo colour will be sacre bleu?

Underappreciated joke.

[Casimir 1,232]

8 minutes ago, 1776 said:

It would probably be a lot easier for Dave to get over to Beane’s house in that he has all this free time on his hands after getting fired...again.

Free spending owners have made Dave look an awful lot better than he really is. Nothing he puts together is sustainable. 

Wasn’t it Boston years back that tried to lure Beane away from Oakland for more money? 

Dombrowski helped build up the Expos' farm system for its early/mid 90s run.

He also did build/buy that first Marlins' world series winner and was instructed to tear it down the next season.  I don't know how much of that tear down did to contribute (as far as prospect returns) for the next Marlins' world series run.

[ROMAD1 2,245]

4 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Dombrowski helped build up the Expos' farm system for its early/mid 90s run.

He also did build/buy that first Marlins' world series winner and was instructed to tear it down the next season.  I don't know how much of that tear down did to contribute (as far as prospect returns) for the next Marlins' world series run.

Dave is smart.  He should be able to figure out that the free agency model isn't working in an era where PEDs are not extending position player careers like they used to.  So, the back end risk of FAs is greater than it was in the 90s and early 2000s.  

i think the issue for him is building a core of talent evaluators and front office staff that he can trust not to stab him in the back like the Boston ones did.

[bobrob2004 100]

1 hour ago, Casimir said:

Are we really going to chastise Billy Beane for getting to the random postseason tournament more often than anyone realizes despite playing with reduced budget in the **** hole stadium but not winning the random tournament because the random events have not randomly fallen into his favor?

Dombrowski did some goods things in Detroit and guided a pretty significant turn around.  But I'd easily take Beane over Dombrowski right now.

From 2006-2014, the Tigers made the playoffs (5) more often than the Athletics (4).

[Casimir 1,232]

11 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

From 2006-2014, the Tigers made the playoffs (5) more often than the Athletics (4).

If you want to look at it that way, why not look at the time that Dombrowski's time in Detroit overlapped Beane's time in Oakland?  2002 through 2015.  Beane 6, Dombrowski 5. 

[Motor City Sonics 857]

2 minutes ago, Casimir said:

If you want to look at it that way, why not look at the time that Dombrowski's time in Detroit overlapped Beane's time in Oakland?  2002 through 2015.  Beane 6, Dombrowski 5. 

But Dombrowski 5,  Any Other GM since 1987  0

[Casimir 1,232]

49 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Dave is smart.  He should be able to figure out that the free agency model isn't working in an era where PEDs are not extending position player careers like they used to.  So, the back end risk of FAs is greater than it was in the 90s and early 2000s.  

i think the issue for him is building a core of talent evaluators and front office staff that he can trust not to stab him in the back like the Boston ones did.

Is he smart enough to build from within in today's game?  Because unless the Tigers exhume Mike Ilitch, they are going to have to build part of their success on bringing up talent.

Is he smart enough to bring in analytics?  Because he had plenty of time to do that in Detroit, but apparently didn't.

[Buddha 776]

2 hours ago, Casimir said:

Are we really going to chastise Billy Beane for getting to the random postseason tournament more often than anyone realizes despite playing with reduced budget in the **** hole stadium but not winning the random tournament because the random events have not randomly fallen into his favor?

Dombrowski did some goods things in Detroit and guided a pretty significant turn around.  But I'd easily take Beane over Dombrowski right now.

im not chastising billy beane at all, im just reacting against this revisionist history that dombrowski is somehow a bad gm or not as good as billy beane.  he's much more successful than billy beane.

[bobrob2004 100]

3 minutes ago, Casimir said:

If you want to look at it that way, why not look at the time that Dombrowski's time in Detroit overlapped Beane's time in Oakland?  2002 through 2015.  Beane 6, Dombrowski 5. 

Because I think it's a bit unfair.  Beane became GM in 1997 and Oakland didn't make the playoffs until 4 years later.  Dombrowksi became GM in 2002 and didn't make the playoffs until 3 years later.  Both took time to develop their philosophies, but you are conveniently leaving out Beane's time.  By 2006, both GMs had already established their strategies on the ballclub.  

[Motor City Sonics 857]

There are a few teams willing to spend money to win (Mets, Padres, Orioles) and Dave is your guy if you are willing to spend.   That's what he does and he's really good at it.    But walking away now and being a consultant wouldn't be the worst decision for him.    I think it's just too much in his blood, though.  

[Oblong 2,014]

3 minutes ago, Buddha said:

im not chastising billy beane at all, im just reacting against this revisionist history that dombrowski is somehow a bad gm or not as good as billy beane.  he's much more successful than billy beane.

I don't think people are saying DD was a bad GM, but rather his method appears to be outdated.  DD was fired twice in the last 4 years now.  

Beane and DD were operating under different guidelines and rules imposed by their employers.

Success is determined by your employer and Beane has kept his employer satisfied for over 20 years now.  DD is looking for his 4th employer during that time.

 

[Casimir 1,232]

3 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Because I think it's a bit unfair.  Beane became GM in 1997 and Oakland didn't make the playoffs until 4 years later.  Dombrowksi became GM in 2002 and didn't make the playoffs until 3 years later.  Both took time to develop their philosophies, but you are conveniently leaving out Beane's time.  By 2006, both GMs had already established their strategies on the ballclub.  

I don't think its fair that Beane had nowhere near the checkbook that Dombrowski had.

[Casimir 1,232]

5 minutes ago, Buddha said:

im not chastising billy beane at all, im just reacting against this revisionist history that dombrowski is somehow a bad gm or not as good as billy beane.  he's much more successful than billy beane.

Who is saying Dombrowski is a bad GM?  I don't think that is the case at all.

I disagree that Dombrowski is more successful than Beane.  I think counting championship rings to decide that is terrible.  By that logic, the Marlins were a better franchise than Atlanta from 1995 through 2005.  Come on, Buddha, you're smarter than that.

[Buddha 776]

1 minute ago, Oblong said:

I don't think people are saying DD was a bad GM, but rather his method appears to be outdated.  DD was fired twice in the last 4 years now.  

Beane and DD were operating under different guidelines and rules imposed by their employers.

Success is determined by your employer and Beane has kept his employer satisfied for over 20 years now.  DD is looking for his 4th employer during that time.

 

i think people are saying DD is an overrated gm because he had an owner with money.  that certainly helped, but he also had to put up with him running off and signing prince fielder type shiny like objects (and then got kinsler for fielder in another brilliant trade).  when our current gm had a blank checkbook we ended up with jordan zimmerman, its not always that easy.

he built the expos.  he built the tigers from nothing.  he was able to trade good players for better players.  

the red sox are in a win now situation and he went all on in chris sale and it worked.  when the a's were in a win now situation he went all in on jeff samardzjia and it didnt.

[Casimir 1,232]

7 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said:

There are a few teams willing to spend money to win (Mets, Padres, Orioles) and Dave is your guy if you are willing to spend.   That's what he does and he's really good at it.    But walking away now and being a consultant wouldn't be the worst decision for him.    I think it's just too much in his blood, though.  

There had been rumblings before about Dombrowski as commissioner of baseball.  I don't know how likely that would be, but I could see him working as a high level official for MLB.

[Buddha 776]

1 minute ago, Casimir said:

Who is saying Dombrowski is a bad GM?  I don't think that is the case at all.

I disagree that Dombrowski is more successful than Beane.  I think counting championship rings to decide that is terrible.  By that logic, the Marlins were a better franchise than Atlanta from 1995 through 2005.  Come on, Buddha, you're smarter than that.

how would you like to measure success?

[Buddha 776]

6 minutes ago, Oblong said:

 

Success is determined by your employer and Beane has kept his employer satisfied for over 20 years now.  DD is looking for his 4th employer during that time.

 

if success is determined by your employer then russ thomas was one of the greatest general managers in nfl history.

[bobrob2004 100]

4 minutes ago, Casimir said:

I don't think its fair that Beane had nowhere near the checkbook that Dombrowski had.

I don't think that's relevant when determining who was able to build "a long-term success."  

If Beane's strategy is so effective, why did Oakland miss the playoffs for 5 straight years from 2007-2011?  Seems like there was a "rebuilding" time period, just like there is under Dombrowski's strategy.  

[ROMAD1 2,245]

Just looked at Lynn Henning's timeline.  He was probably DD's greatest fan in Detroit media (tell me if that's not right).

NOTHING!

Therefore:  ITS DEFINITELY HAPPENING!!!!!

[insert Ron Paul "its happening meme"]

[Motor City Sonics 857]

I know under Dombrowski we never got the big ring, but man - what a ride.     It sure was awesome to care about Tiger baseball in September or October.   I haven't watched more than 5 minutes of a game in over a month.  I'd rather watch The Brady Bunch house being rennovated.     I wouldn't mind having another run like that or even half of a run like that, even if we didn't win it all.    I have no idea what the next few years hold and I will stick to my own estimate that THIS was the bottom out year, but I sure don't see much in the way of position guys coming and I really wish Chris would sell the team.   

[Casimir 1,232]

Just now, Buddha said:

how would you like to measure success?

I want to see this team (any team that I follow) as a legitimate playoff team season in and season out.  90+ wins every regular season.  Be the organization that other teams try to copy.

I'll take Braves 15 years of winning divisions and whatever happens in the playoffs happens.

[Oblong 2,014]

Worth noting that the 3 times the Tigers played the A's in the playoffs the A's had a better regular season record.

4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if success is determined by your employer then russ thomas was one of the greatest general managers in nfl history.

Did the Dallas Cowboys offer Thomas a gazillion dollars to take over their team like the Sox did with Beane?