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Tigers Organization Hitting Approach

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Whitey Herzog speculated some reasons bench players as a group may make better coaches because they:

a. are watching more baseball from the bench than starters,

b. can observe the moves the manager is making, and presuming they are tuned into the game, can figure out why he is making the moves at the time he is making them.  Whitey started to reason forward and predict his manager's moves and then predict the moves the opposition would make as a way to pass time on the bench when he was a player.  This probably isn't as big a deal now with a 4-man bench.

c. are better able to understand the struggles of players scuffling, because bench players spend most of their career scuffling, essentially.

d. have, as a group, better people skills and understand nuances of the game because absent those things they will be cut for another bench player who brings those things.  You can be a demanding, selfish ***-hat that throws to the wrong base periodically if you hit .330.  You can't if you are Don Kelly.

Please find another forum for reasonable posts, this isn't the place for that.

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Tigers Organization Hitting Approach

Hi .. My name is Lloyd.  I am your hitting coach.  Listen to me very carefully because I am legendary.  The first thing you need to learn is how not to hit the ball.  Indeed, learning how not to hit the ball is absolutely the most important thing you need to learn about hitting.  By practicing and perfecting how not to hit the ball ..you will be better equipped to use that skill to then learn how to hit the ball.  Please do not get ahead of the learning curve.  You must learn how not to hit the ball first.  Always remember and never forget ..I am legendary.

Are there any questions?

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A good hitting coach needs to know how to take the analytics and be able to communicate them to the player.  If a hitter can benefit from increasing his launch angle by 5 degrees, telling him so isn't going to be beneficial.  A good hitting coach will make adjustments to his swing, stance, hand placement, etc. and the result will be increasing his launch angle by 5 degrees, and therefore make him more productive.  The batter doesn't care about the analytics of things, all he cares about is the results.  

Advanced stats are more meaningful with journalists, who can make a statement like, "this hitter increased his launch angle by 5 degrees and the results are amazing!"  As opposed to, "this hitter is really seeing the ball well lately!"  The former is precise while the later is vague, making for a better story.     

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2 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

A good hitting coach needs to know how to take the analytics and be able to communicate them to the player.  If a hitter can benefit from increasing his launch angle by 5 degrees, telling him so isn't going to be beneficial.  A good hitting coach will make adjustments to his swing, stance, hand placement, etc. and the result will be increasing his launch angle by 5 degrees, and therefore make him more productive.  The batter doesn't care about the analytics of things, all he cares about is the results.  

Advanced stats are more meaningful with journalists, who can make a statement like, "this hitter increased his launch angle by 5 degrees and the results are amazing!"  As opposed to, "this hitter is really seeing the ball well lately!"  The former is precise while the later is vague, making for a better story.     

I know I'm old fashioned but if a hitting coach said  "this hitter increased his launch angle by 5 degrees and the results are amazing!" and claimed credit for such a precise adjustment my BS meter would be clanging.....

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I hate to disagree with Kaline but the problem isn't this old school fundamental cliches that old timers like to spew, the problem is they simply don't hit for any power while virtually every other team does.

We can blame it on the hitters all we want but in this day and age where everybody is hitting for power there is no excuse why we can't seem to have anybody doing so.   

I say they start sitting on a certain pitch and swing for the fences, trying to "work the count" and hit to all fields simply isn't working.  

Also God forbid would it kill them to try to change their approach each at bat?  It's always the same, take the first pitch then Chase the 2nd and fall behind 0-2.  You know it's not against the rules to jump on the first pitch from time to time.  

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Maybe we should  just change the dimensions of the park and move center field in about 50 feet and make the deepest part of the park at 370 feet. I wouldn't like this , but the chicks would love it.

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18 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

Maybe we should  just change the dimensions of the park and move center field in about 50 feet and make the deepest part of the park at 370 feet. I wouldn't like this , but the chicks would love it.

The Tigers road record is 23 and 48 so we can't use Comerica as an excuse. This group of players/coaches (with a few exceptions) are all going to be answers to future trivia questions. Just a sad few years and hopefully we can develop some position players because we have some stud pitching on the way, hopefully.

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I wouldnt have them start sitting on pitches to drive until they can prove they can actually recognize pitches.

 

This team has let more fastballs down the middle go by and swung at more down and away sliders than i can quantify

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1 hour ago, TallBaby said:

I wouldnt have them start sitting on pitches to drive until they can prove they can actually recognize pitches.

 

This team has let more fastballs down the middle go by and swung at more down and away sliders than i can quantify

It really is striking. A Detroit pitcher makes a mistake and it's usually bye-bye baseball. Opposing pitchers make mistakes and Tiger hitters can't pull the trigger. It's simply the difference between good and bad hitters. And it doesn't matter a bit what field or launch angle you are aiming for - when you let center-cut fastballs and hanging breaking balls go by, you are going to be a bad hitter.

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On 9/5/2019 at 6:27 PM, Sports_Freak said:

The Tigers road record is 23 and 48 so we can't use Comerica as an excuse. This group of players/coaches (with a few exceptions) are all going to be answers to future trivia questions. Just a sad few years and hopefully we can develop some position players because we have some stud pitching on the way, hopefully.

 

On 9/5/2019 at 6:09 PM, HeyAbbott said:

Maybe we should  just change the dimensions of the park and move center field in about 50 feet and make the deepest part of the park at 370 feet. I wouldn't like this , but the chicks would love it.

 I meant this tongue in cheek. We have also witnessed continued griping about Comerica, which has generally been used to hide the current shortcomings of the Tigers. Looking at the Tigers farm system, we may have 2  position players of significance, Riley Greene and Isaac Paredes. The rest are just guys. Daz Cmeron, Kody Clemens, and Parker Meadows should  probably all plan on selling Samsung washer/dryer combinations at Best Buy as their next career move.

I thought 2023 was the year we would be in the playoffs at the start of this season, 2024 still looks doable, maybe.

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34 minutes ago, HeyAbbott said:

 

 I meant this tongue in cheek. We have also witnessed continued griping about Comerica, which has generally been used to hide the current shortcomings of the Tigers. Looking at the Tigers farm system, we may have 2  position players of significance, Riley Greene and Isaac Paredes. The rest are just guys. Daz Cmeron, Kody Clemens, and Parker Meadows should  probably all plan on selling Samsung washer/dryer combinations at Best Buy as their next career move.

I thought 2023 was the year we would be in the playoffs at the start of this season, 2024 still looks doable, maybe.

If you feel they've failed to find prospects for the near term why would you believe this management team will all of sudden get smart 5+ years out?   

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I have zero faith in the management to put a decent team out there in their employment tenure.  But hey, if you have low expectations...

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The Tiger's hitting has been a total embarrassment this season.  There is only one way to go.   New coaching may not help, but it's necessary unless they want the same results.  Something has to change.

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They need better talent. Better coaching might help a little, but you just can't polish turds and Det has a lot of turds. It's worse in Toledo so next year could be worse if no FA are brought in.

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On 9/10/2019 at 6:35 PM, LooseGoose said:

If you feel they've failed to find prospects for the near term why would you believe this management team will all of sudden get smart 5+ years out?   

I think the investment required will be more to management's liking after the  dead contracts are gone basically  by 2023 or 2024. Some where about or around 2021, I would expect  other major changes in the organization and development side to prepare. The organization needs a more balanced approach regarding player development.

 In short we are in a holding pattern, circling due to organizational desire basically to not do anything of importance until management financial goals can be met . The committment to excellence depends on the price tag.

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7 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

I think the investment required will be more to management's liking after the  dead contracts are gone basically  by 2023 or 2024. Some where about or around 2021, I would expect  other major changes in the organization and development side to prepare. The organization needs a more balanced approach regarding player development.

 In short we are in a holding pattern, circling due to organizational desire basically to not do anything of importance until management financial goals can be met . The committment to excellence depends on the price tag.

Of course something depending on the price tag isn't evil - I assume most of what you do in life depends at least partially on the price tag?

 

Other than Miggy all of the retained salary mistakes are gone after 2020, I don't foresee them delaying investments longer than that but of course stranger things have happened.

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IIRC...the Astros tinkered with Rogers swing and turned him into decent prospect by focusing on launch angle and hitting for power (which appears to be their org philosophy)  We got a hold of him and tried to undo all that and now he's a mess.

Are we smarter than them?  The evidence suggests "no"

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49 minutes ago, Lei Pong said:

IIRC...the Astros tinkered with Rogers swing and turned him into decent prospect by focusing on launch angle and hitting for power (which appears to be their org philosophy)  We got a hold of him and tried to undo all that and now he's a mess. Are we smarter than them?  The evidence suggests "no"

Which explains that .963OPS slugging in Erie this year after 18 months of the Tiger's tinkering.....they wrecked him.  After all he had a .814OPS in HighA ball when the wizards at Houston were mentoring him.

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1 hour ago, Lei Pong said:

IIRC...the Astros tinkered with Rogers swing and turned him into decent prospect by focusing on launch angle and hitting for power (which appears to be their org philosophy)  We got a hold of him and tried to undo all that and now he's a mess.

Are we smarter than them?  The evidence suggests "no"

His fly ball rate and ISO numbers don't support this at all.

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1 hour ago, LooseGoose said:

Which explains that .963OPS slugging in Erie this year after 18 months of the Tiger's tinkering.....they wrecked him.  After all he had a .814OPS in HighA ball when the wizards at Houston were mentoring him.

Maybe he just can't hit major league pitching?

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Rodgers got 127 games at Erie, over two seasons. Then 48 at Toledo before being bumped up to Detroit (for another 29 games). Why would anyone expect a player to excel at hitting with that aggressive a promotion schedule? Especially as a catcher.

He’s 24. I doubt he is destined for greatness, but am expecting improvement going forward.

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2 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said:

Rodgers got 127 games at Erie, over two seasons. Then 48 at Toledo before being bumped up to Detroit (for another 29 games). Why would anyone expect a player to excel at hitting with that aggressive a promotion schedule? Especially as a catcher.

He’s 24. I doubt he is destined for greatness, but am expecting improvement going forward.

Maybe it was because Greiner got hurt, but I also couldn't see a good reason why they were in such a rush to bring up Rogers or at least why they kept him here once he was struggling.  He was only beginning to handle AAA pitching a little better and they tossed him right into deeper water. I generally am in favor of moving guys as fast as they can go, but only that fast.

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3 hours ago, gmoney said:

Maybe he just can't hit major league pitching?

Could be true.   We'll see next year.  Will he take a step forward like Reyes or have we seen what he is?

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