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kj2018

Tigers Organization Hitting Approach

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It is time, the entire franchise needs a hitting reboot.  The guys up in Detroit are for sure overmatched, but they seem to have no skill in putting the ball in play, situational hitting, and even the new fad, launch angle.  I heard, of all people, Al Kaline, on the radio pre-game show, and he essentially called out the entire hitting of the franchise.  He said it was embarrassing how many times they do not do the little things in terms of getting the runners over, getting them in from third, going the other way, Bunting, and then he railed over and over about how bad their strikeouts have been.

I think it is clearly time to clean house on the hitting side.  Bring in new coaches up and down the organization, try a new approach.  Again, the talent up in Detroit is awful, but other than small improvements from time to time from a few players, it has been a brutally bad year, on top of some of other poor years, on the offensive front.

No guarantees that changing the staff makes any difference, but with what he have seen, it is clearly time to go in a different direction.

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it certainly can't hurt.  but how much should be blamed on the talent acquistion--they seem to avoid high contact/OBP-typle players.  I appreciate going for riskier, high reward guys, but those rarely pan out.

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Until Illitch cares, it doesn’t matter. He believes in Avila which I believe is a big problem. I have zero confidence in Avila, zero! The team sucks, little to no talent. 

 

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why do we have ****ty hitting middle infielders as batting coaches?  Those that can't, teach?

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2 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

why do we have ****ty hitting middle infielders as batting coaches?  Those that can't, teach?

One thing I have learned whilst coaching my kids in different sports is that I couldn't do and now I can't teach.

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37 minutes ago, Casimir said:

One thing I have learned whilst coaching my kids in different sports is that I couldn't do and now I can't teach.

I hear ya.   Basically, I could point them to which base to run to and tie their shoes.  When they reached 10, I was exposed and had to retire.

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1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

why do we have ****ty hitting middle infielders as batting coaches?  Those that can't, teach?

Well I imagine most guys who hit at the big league level made enough money not to need to serve as roving minor league coaches

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8 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Well I imagine most guys who hit at the big league level made enough money not to need to serve as roving minor league coaches

probably.  Wonder if Mario Mendoza is doing anything?

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1 hour ago, Casimir said:

One thing I have learned whilst coaching my kids in different sports is that I couldn't do and now I can't teach.

The only thing left is management.  

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

The only thing left is management.  

I work in management.  The only thing left is retirement (once I get to that age).

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17 hours ago, kj2018 said:

It is time, the entire franchise needs a hitting reboot.  The guys up in Detroit are for sure overmatched, but they seem to have no skill in putting the ball in play, situational hitting, and even the new fad, launch angle.  I heard, of all people, Al Kaline, on the radio pre-game show, and he essentially called out the entire hitting of the franchise.  He said it was embarrassing how many times they do not do the little things in terms of getting the runners over, getting them in from third, going the other way, Bunting, and then he railed over and over about how bad their strikeouts have been.

I think it is clearly time to clean house on the hitting side.  Bring in new coaches up and down the organization, try a new approach.  Again, the talent up in Detroit is awful, but other than small improvements from time to time from a few players, it has been a brutally bad year, on top of some of other poor years, on the offensive front.

No guarantees that changing the staff makes any difference, but with what he have seen, it is clearly time to go in a different direction.

All of this stuff is insignificant in comparison to getting on base and driving the baseball, and I'm sick of hearing old men tell him how important it is. It masks the real problem the org has and I'm not even sure that the GM is aware which, in the grand scheme of things, is the true problem. 

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6 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

why do we have ****ty hitting middle infielders as batting coaches?  Those that can't, teach?

Charlie Lau was basically a lousy hitting catcher.

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6 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

why do we have ****ty hitting middle infielders as batting coaches?  Those that can't, teach?

That is the type of player that Avila loves.  Who else should Jose King turn to when he needs to work on his swing?

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An interesting note from Day regarding Castellanos, who has two more homers today. 

 

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I am a Nick fan and hated to see him go, really hated to see him go.  I believe the Tigers lost a solid first baseman for several years to come. Glad to see the guy having success.  

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52 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I am a Nick fan and hated to see him go, really hated to see him go.  I believe the Tigers lost a solid first baseman for several years to come. Glad to see the guy having success.  

They can get him back in a couple of months, if he'll accept a demotion to the minors.

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On 8/29/2019 at 9:26 PM, kj2018 said:

It is time, the entire franchise needs a hitting reboot.  The guys up in Detroit are for sure overmatched, but they seem to have no skill in putting the ball in play, situational hitting, and even the new fad, launch angle.  I heard, of all people, Al Kaline, on the radio pre-game show, and he essentially called out the entire hitting of the franchise.  He said it was embarrassing how many times they do not do the little things in terms of getting the runners over, getting them in from third, going the other way, Bunting, and then he railed over and over about how bad their strikeouts have been.

I think it is clearly time to clean house on the hitting side.  Bring in new coaches up and down the organization, try a new approach.  Again, the talent up in Detroit is awful, but other than small improvements from time to time from a few players, it has been a brutally bad year, on top of some of other poor years, on the offensive front.

No guarantees that changing the staff makes any difference, but with what he have seen, it is clearly time to go in a different direction.

No, launch angle is not a new fad.  Ted Williams was preaching it a long time ago. 

 

The difference is now we have a way to measure it.  It's the same philosophy of hitting for the last 100 years.  Just because we can put a number to it now, all of a sudden it's a "new fad."  

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27 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

No, launch angle is not a new fad.  Ted Williams was preaching it a long time ago. 

 

The difference is now we have a way to measure it.  It's the same philosophy of hitting for the last 100 years.  Just because we can put a number to it now, all of a sudden it's a "new fad."  

Ted is right. And also the maximum energy transfer takes place if the bat is moving in exactly the same place as the ball is coming is, which as Ted says - is 6-8 degrees. If you incline your swing more, there is a trade off between a better path to the seats and a loss of energy transfer equal to the cosine of the angle between the pitch and the swing plane. At 10 degrees the cosine is still 98%. At 15 deg from the pitch (~22 deg from level) it's 95% so inclinations past that you are going to start losing energy transfer. Those numbers are what create the limits.

It is still never one size fits all however. A hitter has to have enough consistent power for his HR/FB ratio to get > 10% (or what the analytics show is the break even) before launch angle is going to help him, otherwise it's going to be counter productive. There is nothing wrong in stressing line drive hitting for some hitters and advising others to incline their swing plain. The key is giving the right advice to the right guys!

Now of course the extra complication now is the rabbit ball. There are probably a lot of guys whose HR/FB ratios were too low to benefit from launch angles 3-5 yrs ago that should be reconsidering what they are doing today. I do wonder if maybe the Tigers are  failing to re-evaluate players or player profiles they have already pigeonholed based on the old baseball.

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I remember my dad telling me about the different philosophies on hitting, basically the Ted Williams approach and the Charlie Lau approach. I followed the Ted Williams approach.  Who are you going to believe?  I am going to believe the guy with the .344 career batting average over the guy with the .255 average.  Granted, the guy with the .255 average may have the knowledge but not the physical skill, but I think Ted Williams side of the argument just makes more sense and he proved it work.  

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Depends on the player. Lau disciples like George Brett and Tony Gwynn did ok

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Please don't conflate teaching what to do and actually being able to execute it.

Pretty much everyone agrees Ted Williams knew as much about hitting as anyone.  Pretty much everyone agrees Ted was as good a hitter as anyone.  Pretty much everyone also agrees Ted was a lousy coach, largely because of his personality and impatience.

There are many examples of great coaches who could not execute at the MLB level despite knowing and trying to do the right things.

There are also relatively few people that were both highly successful players and coaches.

In closing, virtually everyone who manages to at least cobble together say a 5 year career in the show understands the game, and probably understands it as well or better than anyone posting here.  Professional players will listen to anyone they think can help them independent if that someone hit .220 without power or is Barry Bonds.

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Whitey Herzog speculated some reasons bench players as a group may make better coaches because they:

a. are watching more baseball from the bench than starters,

b. can observe the moves the manager is making, and presuming they are tuned into the game, can figure out why he is making the moves at the time he is making them.  Whitey started to reason forward and predict his manager's moves and then predict the moves the opposition would make as a way to pass time on the bench when he was a player.  This probably isn't as big a deal now with a 4-man bench.

c. are better able to understand the struggles of players scuffling, because bench players spend most of their career scuffling, essentially.

d. have, as a group, better people skills and understand nuances of the game because absent those things they will be cut for another bench player who brings those things.  You can be a demanding, selfish ***-hat that throws to the wrong base periodically if you hit .330.  You can't if you are Don Kelly.

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