Jump to content

84 Lives!!!

2020 MLB Draft

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

I'd be cool that or just having a lottery with say the worst 5-10 teams from last year and go with the same order with the rest of the teams.   

They should do that every year.  You want the help the bottom teams get better, but total ineptness should not be rewarded.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

They should do that every year.  You want the help the bottom teams get better, but total ineptness should not be rewarded.  

punish the management, not the fans. Force a team to change it's FO if comes back a second time in a row for a #1 pick. Let them give up the high pick if they think they are already smart enough to do without it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the draft is a great public relations invention.  it gives the fans something to look forward to and the leagues have wisely turned it into an event.  giving the worst teams the top picks is a fine way for the league to keep fans interested (by theoretically giving them the best young player to watch next season) and supplying them hope.

i find all the talk of changing it to reward good teams and not wanting to reward failure to be the purview of economists and stats guys who are looking at things that dont involve the ordinary fan, but their school models on how to achieve a supposed "optimal" behavior of organizations.

leave the draft the way it is.  its fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Buddha said:

the draft is a great public relations invention.  it gives the fans something to look forward to and the leagues have wisely turned it into an event.  giving the worst teams the top picks is a fine way for the league to keep fans interested (by theoretically giving them the best young player to watch next season) and supplying them hope.

i find all the talk of changing it to reward good teams and not wanting to reward failure to be the purview of economists and stats guys who are looking at things that dont involve the ordinary fan, but their school models on how to achieve a supposed "optimal" behavior of organizations.

leave the draft the way it is.  its fun.

Doing a lottery before the draft would add to the fun.   I don't think rooting for your team to lose 115 games is fun.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember that the Astros had the first pick overall 4 straight years to get where they are now.  They should never have a lottery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

Doing a lottery before the draft would add to the fun.   I don't think rooting for your team to lose 115 games is fun.  

the purpose of the draft is to distribute talent to the teams that need it most.  i understand the frustration of being a fan in 2020 when most smart organizations think they can game the system by being the astros or cubs, but i think a lottery undermines the purpose of the draft that i wrote in my earlier post.  i think that purpose is still more important than preventing "tanking."

but maybe that will change if the tanking continues and continues.  i think its more of an issue in basketball where one generational talent can alter the entire landscape of the league. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, cruzer1 said:

I remember that the Astros had the first pick overall 4 straight years to get where they are now.  They should never have a lottery.

you and i agreeing really needs to stop.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

the purpose of the draft is to distribute talent to the teams that need it most.  i understand the frustration of being a fan in 2020 when most smart organizations think they can game the system by being the astros or cubs, but i think a lottery undermines the purpose of the draft that i wrote in my earlier post.  i think that purpose is still more important than preventing "tanking."

but maybe that will change if the tanking continues and continues.  i think its more of an issue in basketball where one generational talent can alter the entire landscape of the league. 

The lottery would only include the bottom 5 to 10 teams.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Buddha said:

the purpose of the draft is to distribute talent to the teams that need it most.  i understand the frustration of being a fan in 2020 when most smart organizations think they can game the system by being the astros or cubs, but i think a lottery undermines the purpose of the draft that i wrote in my earlier post.  i think that purpose is still more important than preventing "tanking."

but maybe that will change if the tanking continues and continues.  i think its more of an issue in basketball where one generational talent can alter the entire landscape of the league. 

Why reward teams that artificially engineer themselves into having the greatest need by losing games on purpose so they can "earn" that top pick with certainty? With a lottery system, in which the non-playoff teams all have at least a shot to get that top pick, it would make it far less certain that losing on purpose will be rewarded. So even if you know you're not making the playoffs, you would still try to win games because there's no guaranteed upside to trying to lose 110 on purpose, which is an insult to the team's fan base.

Sure, there are so many teams tanking now that even teams like the Orioles who tried to guarantee themselves the top pick again couldn't outsuck another team with the same goal. No system is perfect. But a lottery system would be better than a straight record-based system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

because i want the worst teams to get the best picks.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Why reward teams that artificially engineer themselves into having the greatest need by losing games on purpose so they can "earn" that top pick with certainty? With a lottery system, in which the non-playoff teams all have at least a shot to get that top pick, it would make it far less certain that losing on purpose will be rewarded. So even if you know you're not making the playoffs, you would still try to win games because there's no guaranteed upside to trying to lose 110 on purpose, which is an insult to the team's fan base.

Sure, there are so many teams tanking now that even teams like the Orioles who tried to guarantee themselves the top pick again couldn't outsuck another team with the same goal. No system is perfect. But a lottery system would be better than a straight record-based system.

Do teams tank, or face reality and transfer current assets for future ones? I don't believe any teams tries to lose, they just don't invest in a futile present situation, nor should they.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And, not that Lee wants to hear it, but the much better way to motivate teams into attempting to invest to compete rather than not invest is to expand the play-off pool.

Holding a draft lottery does little to nothing to encourage building a winner.

JMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Different sport, but It is unlikely that the Red Wings will get the #1 pick.  In fact, it is most likely they get the 4th pick.

This, despite the fact that the Red Wings are easily the worst team in their league by *miles*.  They are worse relative to their league than the Tigers were relative to theirs.  Think about that.

There is a potential generational talent in the NHL draft, the type of player a team as talent starved as the Wings could use to accelerate the rebuild and get them closer to the pack, at a start.  You know, the whole reason to have a draft - to drive parity.

But, because of lottery, they are unlikely to get him, because something, something, shouldn't reward bad teams on basis of being really bad, we should instead reward teams for both being bad and randomly winning a lottery.

Funny thing is, the Wings never attempted to tank.  In fact, they did the opposite and frankly hung onto players too long to try to keep the party going.  But that decision had zero to do with the draft lottery.  I'd argue the same with the Tigers.

In summary, I don't think a draft lottery really affects strategies that much.  Basically bad teams don't have talent and good teams have it.  Ii is possible a C- team could become a C+ team with the right signings, but that C- team isn't going to pick #1 absent a lottery, but could pick #1 with a lottery presuming they remain a C- team (or worse yet, deal a couple of guys to slide into D/D+ territory), so how exactly does a lottery motivate those teams compete?

The bottom feeders are a lost cause going in regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

And, not that Lee wants to hear it, but the much better way to motivate teams into attempting to invest to compete rather than not invest is to expand the play-off pool.

Holding a draft lottery does little to nothing to encourage building a winner.

JMO.

I think in the Tigers case, they were over investing to compete for championships, but needed to be wise to rebuild their system from scratch.  I'd prefer a team be financially responsible, instead of feeling the need to use free agency every year just to be respectful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Respectable, but yeah, I agree.  Same with the Red Wings.  Both need to grow organically.

If a team offers a great deal because their GM is incompetent, take it, but in all likelihood they won't get good again until they develop their own stars and supporting role players, then you add a few select FA signings to round it out.

That is the rebuild plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

And, not that Lee wants to hear it, but the much better way to motivate teams into attempting to invest to compete rather than not invest is to expand the play-off pool.

Holding a draft lottery does little to nothing to encourage building a winner.

JMO.

can you imagine a baseball with no salary cap and only two or four teams making the world series?   its called european soccer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

And, not that Lee wants to hear it, but the much better way to motivate teams into attempting to invest to compete rather than not invest is to expand the play-off pool.

Holding a draft lottery does little to nothing to encourage building a winner.

JMO.

It's less about encouraging building a winner than it is about discouraging tanking.

If there's a 100% certainty that the worst record will secure the 1-1 pick, that creates the incentive for a number of organizations in any given season—one or two or six or whatever—to field the worst major league team possible in a bid to lose the most games in order to get that pick. To cite a recent example: the Detroit Tigers.

If the chances of getting the 1-1 is reduced to no greater than, say, 20% due to a draft lottery, then organizations would be far less likely to field a team in a bid to get the worst record, since there would be an 80% chance they would fail in the endeavor. And then they would have to be accountable to the fans for that.

Contrast that to today's system, in which fans perversely root for their team to end up with the worst record in baseball, which has occurred numerous times in this very forum. I don't like that, and it's a reason why I would prefer to see a draft lottery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Buddha said:

can you imagine a baseball with no salary cap and only two or four teams making the world series?   its called european soccer.

You think that capitalist crap would fly here in America? Not on your life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

It's less about encouraging building a winner than it is about discouraging tanking.

If there's a 100% certainty that the worst record will secure the 1-1 pick, that creates the incentive for a number of organizations in any given season—one or two or six or whatever—to field the worst major league team possible in a bid to lose the most games in order to get that pick. To cite a recent example: the Detroit Tigers.

If the chances of getting the 1-1 is reduced to no greater than, say, 20% due to a draft lottery, then organizations would be far less likely to field a team in a bid to get the worst record, since there would be an 80% chance they would fail in the endeavor. And then they would have to be accountable to the fans for that.

Contrast that to today's system, in which fans perversely root for their team to end up with the worst record in baseball, which has occurred numerous times in this very forum. I don't like that, and it's a reason why I would prefer to see a draft lottery.

I would suggest there will always be 6 teams effectively competing for the worst regardless and I don't care what some fans wish for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I would suggest there will always be 6 teams effectively competing for the worst regardless and I don't care what some fans wish for.

by any objective measure, are the worst teams in lottery leagues less bad than in non-lottery leagues? I think the answer to  that is clearly no. And that is the bottom line - not what someone postulates a FO is trying to do but the results on the field (or ice or court). Regardless of the theory, in practice lotteries have not prevented truly putrid NBA teams or NHL teams. So what is the point?

The counter point is that in baseball, the truly putrid team did get better, enough to win a championship inside a decade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chasfh said:

It's less about encouraging building a winner than it is about discouraging tanking.

If there's a 100% certainty that the worst record will secure the 1-1 pick, that creates the incentive for a number of organizations in any given season—one or two or six or whatever—to field the worst major league team possible in a bid to lose the most games in order to get that pick. To cite a recent example: the Detroit Tigers.

If the chances of getting the 1-1 is reduced to no greater than, say, 20% due to a draft lottery, then organizations would be far less likely to field a team in a bid to get the worst record, since there would be an 80% chance they would fail in the endeavor. And then they would have to be accountable to the fans for that.

Contrast that to today's system, in which fans perversely root for their team to end up with the worst record in baseball, which has occurred numerous times in this very forum. I don't like that, and it's a reason why I would prefer to see a draft lottery.

Again, I don't believe teams are intentionally trying to lose, rather they are recognizing their current situation and trading current assets for future ones, as they should.

And is perversely rooting for a better draft choice, and some hope, worse than total apathy when your team is out of the race?

A lottery isn't going to keep a team from rebuilding. Look at the NBA and NHL, their lottery system is not a disincentive to "tanking", teams only get screwed with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all the lottery does is allow the league to manipulate which teams get the best players...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Buddha said:

all the lottery does is allow the league to manipulate which teams get the best players...

*Cough* Cleveland *Cough*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...