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2020 MLB Draft

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7 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Whenever one player/manager/front office person has been doing something advantageous for more than a year, it is likely that others are doing something similar.  

Good thing the only trash can are used for in Detroit is our record

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We're all assuming the Tigers aren't implicated in this at some point.

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8 hours ago, Buddha said:

We're all assuming the Tigers aren't implicated in this at some point.

I don't think they are sophisticated enough.  

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Probably just cracked the code this year... Like the person who arrives to a party late excited and energetic after a tragedy occurs in the first hour.

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52 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I don't think they are sophisticated enough.  

i think the tigers - and everyone else - have been stealing signs for years.

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35 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think the tigers - and everyone else - have been stealing signs for years.

Probably true, but I also think there is a certain amount of it which is accepted and overlooked.  Teams crossed the line with the use of advanced technology.  

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

i think the tigers - and everyone else - have been stealing signs for years.

how embarrassing, if true.  another thing we suck at.

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It might not be all bad.

We might be great at stealing signs and just bad at using that information productively.

#silverlinings

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The issue is not actually 'stealing' signs. 

The issue is whether or not they are using electronic methods during the actual game ..which is forbidden.

 

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I think the Donaldson sighing means the Tigers 3rd round pick is the 74th pick, down from 73.  The Twins lose their 3rd round pick, so the Tigers 4th round pick is 1 notch closer.

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

Probably true, but I also think there is a certain amount of it which is accepted and overlooked.  Teams crossed the line with the use of advanced technology.  

why?  what's the difference?

if i'm in the stands with binoculars picking out signs and relaying them to the team - which the tigers have been accused of doing and admitted to doing in the 1940 world series - why is that ok but looking at a video screen isnt?

its like the ped argument.  why are steroids bad and greenies arent?

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

why?  what's the difference?

if i'm in the stands with binoculars picking out signs and relaying them to the team - which the tigers have been accused of doing and admitted to doing in the 1940 world series - why is that ok but looking at a video screen isnt?

its like the ped argument.  why are steroids bad and greenies arent?

There is no difference really.  I was looking at it from what I think their perspective would be.   Technology is new and scary.  

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

why?  what's the difference?

if i'm in the stands with binoculars picking out signs and relaying them to the team - which the tigers have been accused of doing and admitted to doing in the 1940 world series - why is that ok but looking at a video screen isnt?

its like the ped argument.  why are steroids bad and greenies arent?

I think if there is another mechanism that allowed a team to see the catcher’s signs and signal to the batter quickly enough for the batter to receive the signal prior to the pitch being thrown, that would be just as bad. 
 

Is it feasible for a guy with binoculars in center field to perceive the catcher’s sign and signal the batter? I guess it’s possible. 
 

On the other hand, if you have a guy watching the game on tv and decoding the signals when you have a runner on second, and then later in the game your runner on second is signaling the pitch based on what he is seeing, that doesn’t seem problematic to me. It’s easily addressed by the pitcher and catcher changing the signs. 
 

Long story short, signaling from the dugout or the stands what the pitch is going to be isn’t ok. A player on the field signaling based on what he is seeing is fine. 
 

At least that is how I see it. 
 

What is the story with the Apple Watch procedure. Was it a guy watching the broadcast and sending a text to the watch, and person wearing the watch would whistle or something (similar to the bang on the trash can)? That also isn’t ok, but seems a bit harder to pull off given the delay and the use of a middle man between the observer and the batter. 

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Stealing signs, if performed by a player or coach, is perfectly acceptable.  As long as you don't mind having a ball thrown at your head, you should be looking at the other team's third base coach, and when you are a baserunner you should try to see what the catcher is doing.  But having someone who is not a player or coach, and who is using a camera or binoculars, participating in the process is not acceptable.

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That's fantastic!  I'd never heard that about Comiskey before.  Yes it's cheating and unacceptable.  It's brilliant though.

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Just using team OPS as a measurement, the Sox hit a lot better at home than on the road in 1956 - .784 to .708.  In subsequent years it didn't make much of a difference and in 1957 their road OPS was actually higher.  There are so many factors involved that it's hard to isolate the benefit of being told what pitch is coming.

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I remember an interview several years back with Adrian Gonzalez, it was about the time he was considered one of the best hitters in baseball.  Anyway the discussion of sign stealing got brought up and he said as a batter he would never participate in it again because he found it more difficult when base runners would steal signs and try to relay it to him at the plate.

The brain can only process information so quickly so having to quickly register what the sign meant while still having that little doubt in the back of your head if it was 100 percent accurate just made it more difficult for him.

Of course this situation is more sophisticated then just the runner on 2nd stealing signs but to me it still seems like it would be distracting trying to focus on getting the signs while the pitch is just about on its way.  But evidently it's benefitial or else they wouldn't keep doing it. 

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Yes I think that I have enough to worry about in the batter's box without also looking at the guy taking his leadoff from second - was his first step with his right foot, or did he cross over with his left?  And, did he absent-mindedly just step with his right foot because he couldn't see the sign or interpret it?  I can see where Gonzalez would not want to be distracted.  Perhaps it helps a .208 hitter more than it helps Adrian Gonzalez.

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3 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I remember an interview several years back with Adrian Gonzalez, it was about the time he was considered one of the best hitters in baseball.  Anyway the discussion of sign stealing got brought up and he said as a batter he would never participate in it again because he found it more difficult when base runners would steal signs and try to relay it to him at the plate.

The brain can only process information so quickly so having to quickly register what the sign meant while still having that little doubt in the back of your head if it was 100 percent accurate just made it more difficult for him.

Of course this situation is more sophisticated then just the runner on 2nd stealing signs but to me it still seems like it would be distracting trying to focus on getting the signs while the pitch is just about on its way.  But evidently it's benefitial or else they wouldn't keep doing it. 

I guess it depends upon the hitter.  Some hitters just want to dig in and swing.  I would imagine taking the time to look over at the base runner (who might be wrong) flashing signs could be distracting / time consuming in the mind of that type of hitter.

I have to imagine pitchers will throw off of the sign once in a while just to keep the opposition honest.  Catcher calls fastball out of the zone with a non threat on 2nd and the pitcher throws a change up in the same location.  Does that derail the sign stealing that the opposition might think they have at the point?

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