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2020 MLB Draft

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6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

Of course you dropped your stats because they're made up.

This is made up and meaningless.

And Miggy was "very good" between 2014 and 2016.....WHICH WERE THE YEARS HE WOULD HAVE BEEN UNDER CONTRACT WITHOUT THE EXTENSION.  THAT'S THE POINT!

And as for the years after when the extension kicked in?  As you note above, he has "plummeted his productivity to less than replacement level status".  For $30 million per season.  I bet the Tigers could have found an above average replacement who would have put up the same numbers for less than $30 million per.

Next year I will continue to root for Miggy to return to the glory days.  If I had directions to David Ortiz's pharmacist, I would provide them willingly.  I hope he realizes that his best career move is to stop drinking and start DHing full time.  If he does, he may well return to respectability.  I want him to do so very badly.

Oh .. good grief.  The stats are real .. and just shows how much you don't know.  Go to baseball reference and use the available interactive options to see a pop-up of Miggy's stats for only 2014 through 2019! 

Moreover, without that extension in March 2014 ..when Miggy had only 2 years remaining on his prior contract ..means that Miggy's contract would have expired after 2015 and NOT 2016 as you claim. 

Done with you about this!

 

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1 hour ago, Tigrrfan said:

Oh .. good grief.  The stats are real .. and just shows how much you don't know.  Go to baseball reference and use the available interactive options to see a pop-up of Miggy's stats for only 2014 through 2019! 

Moreover, without that extension in March 2014 ..when Miggy had only 2 years remaining on his prior contract ..means that Miggy's contract would have expired after 2015 and NOT 2016 as you claim. 

Done with you about this!

 

So they would have missed out on one good season. Totally worth spending 240MM. 

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13 minutes ago, Yoda said:

So they would have missed out on one good season. Totally worth spending 240MM. 

Precisely.  I feel like we have beaten this to death. 

The extension was unnecessary at the time, we all thought that there would be 3 or 4 horrific years at the end... but we didn't know that it would be 6 or 7.  We should have known, I guess, based on body type. And just to clarify, paying $30 million for an OPS+ of 100, like the Tigers have done for the past 3 years, is a horrific contract.  We all agree on all of that.  So can we just move on now, please.  Those of you who need to get in the last word, you can post one more time, but then that's it, no rebuttals.   

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8 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

Oh .. good grief.  The stats are real .. and just shows how much you don't know.  Go to baseball reference and use the available interactive options to see a pop-up of Miggy's stats for only 2014 through 2019! 

Moreover, without that extension in March 2014 ..when Miggy had only 2 years remaining on his prior contract ..means that Miggy's contract would have expired after 2015 and NOT 2016 as you claim. 

Done with you about this!

 

Argue just to argue.

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On 12/29/2019 at 4:30 PM, cruzer1 said:

I hate the disrespect that Miggy gets around here.  He's a big guy, and one of the all-time best hitters in our lifetime.

I respect the **** out of Miggy. If there is one guy that could get in shape And  come back it would be Miggy. Fact is, he is out of shape and fat.

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On 12/29/2019 at 7:30 PM, cruzer1 said:

I hate the disrespect that Miggy gets around here.  He's a big guy, and one of the all-time best hitters in our lifetime.

Yes, he is a big guy.  Yes, he is one of the all-time best hitters in our lifetime.  Both statements are true.

The contract sucks.  He is not a very good ballplayer right now.  Both of those statements are also true.

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12 hours ago, leflore said:

If anything I think Miggy played through too many injuries and is paying the fiddler. Not sure what that means. But it ain't my money and he ain't blocking anybody. Maybe Illitch would spend that money elsewhere but maybe not.

^^^^^^ true! 

Miggy is not blocking anybody ..and it was Mike Illitch's money to spend however he wanted.  

It is sad that he has not produced as well as we all had hoped he would.  Hopefully he will bounce back and give us all plenty of reasons to cheer for him again.

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

Yes, he is a big guy.  Yes, he is one of the all-time best hitters in our lifetime.  Both statements are true.

The contract sucks.  He is not a very good ballplayer right now.  Both of those statements are also true.

He's fat...and he has a leg injury.  That's a bad mix for any athlete...let alone one in his 30's.  Perhaps if he wasn't so fat, the deterioration of his knee would not be as dramatic, rapid or impactful

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6 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

^^^^^^ true! 

Miggy is not blocking anybody ..and it was Mike Illitch's money to spend however he wanted.  

It is sad that he has not produced as well as we all had hoped he would.  Hopefully he will bounce back and give us all plenty of reasons to cheer for him again.

It is probably true that if there is a silver lining in the Miggy contract it is that atleast it is happening while the franchise is so horrible.   Sure it would be better if he was performing but even if he was we'd still suck, and while we may be able to trade him if he was performing we still wouldn't really get anything in return, it would essentially just mean ownership would be spending even less money on the product cause you know they wouldn't reallocate the savings into other players.    

Basically the bottom line is if we never signed Miggy to that extension and just let him walk I believe we would be in the same position we're in now either way, the only possible scenario where it might be different is if we used the Miggy savings on somebody in the 16/17 offseason that would have made us good enough in 2017 not to go into total sell mode.    

edit:  After thinking about it, didn't Ilitch want Chris Davis and Avila talked him out of it because of the lack of fit?  In the hypothetical scenario where Cabrera walks as a free agent that means there would be an opening at 1B so instead of having horrible years of Cabrera we'd probably be looking at horrible years of Chris Davis.  

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13 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

 

Yes, Mike Illitch wanted to sign Chris Davis and Al stopped him. 

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On 12/27/2019 at 3:20 PM, Tenacious D said:

Finding 1B with power is much easier than a middle infielder with moderate power/high OBP.  I’d go Moneyball with this draft, all things equal.

Also, where have we demonstrated an ability to develop pitchers?  Verlander and Porcello have been the only two over the last 10 years, and neither required much development time in minors.  

I understand valuing Martin's OBP, but I will say while you can find a 1B with power, its never easy to find truly elite hitters. We saw the way prime Miggy was such a difference maker as an example. 

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1 hour ago, Nastradamus said:

We saw the way prime Miggy was such a difference maker as an example. 

But was that the best way to construct a team? If we had had a 1b that hit 10 few HR and batted 20 points lower but had had an OF that was net +10 Rdrs instead of ~-30 I think we would have been a better team and a more sustainable salary structure. On team sports stars are great for fan interest, but I think quality depth up and down a baseball line-up without stars wins you more games per dollar. I'd save my star level expenditures for the pitching mound where a guy really can win a game all by himself.

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27 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

On team sports stars are great for fan interest,

Mike Ilitch was a great marketer ..and while many believe most of his signings were to 'win now' ..I think it more probable that he signed so many stars to expensive contracts because he deliberately intended to spur increased fan interest.

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I agree. As a fan I do like having a miggy on the Tigers in his prime. I watch old youtube clips most every week - I think my favorite is watching Mariano mouth "wow" after an epic battle ended in a miggy dead-center dinger. But heavily paid stars - especially on smaller market teams - aren't necessarily the best way to construct a team. The Indians haven't won a ring since Satchel Paige but they consistently contend and they rarely keep their studs past their controllable years. Of course their org seems to know how to develope players.

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On 1/1/2020 at 1:31 PM, leflore said:

 The Indians haven't won a ring since Satchel Paige but they consistently contend and they rarely keep their studs past their controllable years. Of course their org seems to know how to develope players.

They have made the playoffs 12 times in the last 60 years 

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Corey Kluber won the Cy two years ago, had a 2.89 ERA with a sub 1 WHIP in 18 and the Indians just traded him for garbage, far less than we got for Verlander.   Trevor Bauer had a 2.21 ERA in 18 and an elite K rate and they traded him for garbage.  They also traded a then top 5ish prospect(Meijia) for a reliever.     I will give them credit for developing guys like Bieber and Clevinger but boy did they drop the ball on some trades.  They traded Kluber and Bauer at the absolute worse times and got nothing in return because of it and traded the top catching prospect in all of baseball for a freaking reliever that didn't have that long of track record.  

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On 1/1/2020 at 1:31 PM, leflore said:

I agree. As a fan I do like having a miggy on the Tigers in his prime. I watch old youtube clips most every week - I think my favorite is watching Mariano mouth "wow" after an epic battle ended in a miggy dead-center dinger. But heavily paid stars - especially on smaller market teams - aren't necessarily the best way to construct a team. The Indians haven't won a ring since Satchel Paige but they consistently contend and they rarely keep their studs past their controllable years. Of course their org seems to know how to develope players.

They’ve looked pretty good the last 25 seasons.  A few duds a long the way, but a decent amount of 1st place finishes sprinkled in.

 

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1 hour ago, Keepleyland2 said:

They have made the playoffs 12 times in the last 60 years 

Imho that's a little misleading and it's hard to compare eras with this. Until 1994 only 2 teams made the AL playoffs. Since the playoffs were expanded they've made the post season 10 times in 25 years. I'd call that fairly consistent contending, but that's subjective

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Teams with 10 or more post season appearances past 25 years

Skankees 21

Braves 16

Cards 14

Boston, LAD 13

Indians 11

Astros, A's 10

 

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20 hours ago, leflore said:

Imho that's a little misleading and it's hard to compare eras with this. Until 1994 only 2 teams made the AL playoffs. Since the playoffs were expanded they've made the post season 10 times in 25 years. I'd call that fairly consistent contending, but that's subjective

You set the paramaters hauss.

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