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Deleterious

2019 Michigan Football

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20 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if michigan beats osu in 2016, they would be recruiting better now.

once the playoffs expand to 8 and 16 they will recruit better because they'll actually be able to make it without beating osu.

 

Pretty much. 
 

Michigan is a yard away from basically doing all of things that Tater demands. And for that matter, I would argue that being in CFP position heading into the OSU game, any year, shows that Harbaugh has the program in the expected condition.  Obviously you still have to play the game and win it, and they haven’t done that. But acting as if Harbaugh has failed and his performance is “unacceptable” seems intellectually dishonest. 

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6 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The weather sucks in Columbus Ohio too, yet 5 star recruits still go there. Why? Because they will do what it takes to win the recruiting battle and they have a coaching staff in place to get it done. Greg Mattison and Al Washington left Harbaugh's staff and went to the toilet bowl for a reason.

The state of Ohio and Pennsylvania have a lot of HS talent, much more than Michigan.  

Those states obviously aren't Florida, California or Texas in terms of talent but they generally have more than the vast majority of other states so that is a huge advantage for them over Michigan.

Obviously the Ohio kids will most likely want to play for OSU but Columbus is close to West Pennsylvania so any kids on that side of the state may go there as well as it's only an hour and a half drive or so.  

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On 12/20/2019 at 10:41 AM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

If Michigan as a university doesn't see themselves in the same league, competing with Ohio State, Clemson, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, etc. then someone from the university needs to publicly come out and state that they are revising the expectations from when Harbaugh was first hired

I didn't make clear what I mean when I talked about peers. What I mean is that at UM they pay (and very well) the guys in the athletic dept to compete with OSU, and they are supposed to see OSU as the competition  (and that is where the PR you complain about comes from) but that mindset does not permeate the rest of the University so deeply - so if Harbaugh wins most of his games and runs a clean program that makes money, but loses to OSU, he is not going to come under anything like the kind of pressure because of the losses from within the University that an OSU coach would if he did the same. Football success is just a smaller piece of UM's identity internally - partly because it's elite academic status gives it's managers more markers of a different type as the things they do worry  and judge themselves internally about. Now the money always matters, and if the program stops making money because of the losses, then the connection will matter more. But until that happens......

Just another insight along the same line to illustrate the difference. I don't remember the exact syntax of what he said, but early in the Tressell resignation saga the OSU president Gordon Gee make some kind comment intended as a joke about how they (he, the AD etc) were all there at Tressell's pleasure or something like that. No UM president would ever make a crack like that in A^2, no-one would think it was funny, and I don't think any comic potential of such a crack would even have occured to Mark Schlissel  or Mary Sue Coleman. But that's what I mean about how football plays differently into OSU's institutional identity as compared to UMs and why.

And the other thing is, interest in college football is waning among college students in many places and a2 is one of them. I'd guess we are also  'ahead' of Columbus in that regard just because we have more out of state and graduate students with no local ties. Just watch the student stands clear out at half-time in ann arbor or all the empty stands right from kickoff at so many other college games. It hard to sustain excitement about something on a campus that the students don't care much about, even if the alums and the suburbanite fans down the road still do.

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One of the first duties of the offseason should be finding a spot on the coaching staff for Ron Bellamy.   I’ve got a feeling that someone is going to do it now and it would be a huge loss if it wasn’t his alma mater.   
 

Edwards is about as close to a must get recruit as you can find for UM and they definitely can’t afford to lose him to OSU, MSU, or ND.  
 

 

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Don't worry, if and when they miss out on Edwards, especially if OSU gets him, the spin machine in Schembechler Hall will be in full effect if anyone dares to ask why we lost out. Then again, the media around here does nothing to hold Harbaugh accountable.

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9 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Don't worry, if and when they miss out on Edwards, especially if OSU gets him, the spin machine in Schembechler Hall will be in full effect if anyone dares to ask why we lost out. Then again, the media around here does nothing to hold Harbaugh accountable.

your avatar is triggering.

what do you expect to come out of michigan?  anti-harbaugh stuff?  give me a break.

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Jim had to work hard to convince his RB coach to come work for him at Michigan.   I’m sure Edwards will be swayed by the chance to learn the position from one of the best in the business.   

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

your avatar is triggering.

what do you expect to come out of michigan?  anti-harbaugh stuff?  give me a break.

No, I expect accountability to come out of the university and there is none. Ohio State held John Cooper accountable. Georgia held Mark Richt accountable. Auburn held Gene Chizik accountable. LSU held Les Miles accountable. Good but not great coaches, **** even formally great coaches, get fired. Michigan is doing nothing to hold Harbaugh to account, they just give him a blank check and apparently a never ending leash. In-fact, Harbaugh is getting a guaranteed raise next year so he can go 0-6 against OSU and get blown off the field once again. It's sad when Jeff Brohm is more successful than you are against the Buckeyes.

Would it kill the university to have some intellectual honesty and say that the goal each year is to win football games and be respectable but not beat Ohio State? Oh wait, they can't do that, they need to sit here and spin their intellectually dishonest narrative to all of us about how this is still "The Game" and we're going to compete to win against Ohio State so they can continue to ensure the cash keeps flowing in. What a bunch of crap. When you've been beaten to the point of enacting a mercy rule two years straight  that spin stops working.

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8 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

No, I expect accountability to come out of the university and there is none. Ohio State held John Cooper accountable. Georgia held Mark Richt accountable. Auburn held Gene Chizik accountable. LSU held Les Miles accountable. Good but not great coaches, **** even formally great coaches, get fired. Michigan is doing nothing to hold Harbaugh to account, they just give him a blank check and apparently a never ending leash. In-fact, Harbaugh is getting a guaranteed raise next year so he can go 0-6 against OSU and get blown off the field once again. It's sad when Jeff Brohm is more successful than you are against the Buckeyes.

Would it kill the university to have some intellectual honesty and say that the goal each year is to win football games and be respectable but not beat Ohio State? Oh wait, they can't do that, they need to sit here and spin their intellectually dishonest narrative to all of us about how this is still "The Game" and we're going to compete to win against Ohio State so they can continue to ensure the cash keeps flowing in. What a bunch of crap. When you've been beaten to the point of enacting a mercy rule two years straight  that spin stops working.

this is ridiculous, even for you.

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5 hours ago, Buddha said:

this is ridiculous, even for you.

I know that holding Harbaugh accountable for anything down at Schembechler Hall seems like a stretch, but it's certainly not ridiculous. Look at all of the following coaches, from successful football schools, who were fired.

Mark Richt = .740 winning% at Georgia

Gene Chizik = .645 winning% at Auburn

John Cooper = .691 winning% at OSU

Les Miles = .700 winning% at LSU

If you want Big Ten Championships and you want to win against Ohio State then do what these schools did to their coaches and fire Harbaugh. If you don't, then keep Harbaugh, because you'll never win won over Ohio State as long as he's here and Ryan Day is there. Georgia replaced Richt with Kirby Smart, Auburn replaced Chizik with Gus Malazhan, Ohio State replaced Cooper with Jim Tressel, LSU replaced Miles with Ed Orgeron. With the exception of LSU, who is on track to play for a National Title this season, the other three schools improved and competed for National Championships upon firing their coach.

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7 minutes ago, Buddha said:

were you alive when Bo was coach?  

I was two when Bo retired. My earliest Michigan memories are the Todd Collins quarterbacked and Gary Moeller coached teams of the early 1990's. I very vaguely remember the 1992 Rose Bowl game against Washington.

Bo was 11-9-1 against Ohio State in 21 seasons at Michigan. If Harbaugh coaches here as long as Bo did he will be on track to be 0-21 against Ohio State.

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6 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I was two when Bo retired. My earliest Michigan memories are the Todd Collins quarterbacked and Gary Moeller coached teams of the early 1990's. I very vaguely remember the 1992 Rose Bowl game against Washington.

Bo was 11-9-1 against Ohio State in 21 seasons at Michigan. If Harbaugh coaches here as long as Bo did he will be on track to be 0-21 against Ohio State.

since youre too young to remember, let me educate you.  every year bo would lose the last game of the season, either to ohio state or in the bowl game.  every.  dang.  year.  i imagine if you were around back then you'd want him fired too.

the idea that michigan is going to issue some sort of "statement" about harbaugh and the football program is just sports radio talk bull****.  you dont issue statements undermining your head coach and the program even if you are internally disappointed at the results of the ohio state game.  lunacy.

 

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College Football was different back in the 1980's when Bo was coaching as it was a regional game and winning the Big Ten is what mattered. Today, college football is a national sport, with the Power 5 Conferences, where a National Champion is determined with a playoff and the Rose Bowl is sadly just another random bowl game. That said, if Bo was on track to be 0-21 against Ohio State as Harbaugh is, I would have fired him. 

30 years ago programs like Georgia and Auburn wouldn't likely be firing successful coaches like Richt and Chizik respectfully as the sport was regional. Now, when they are trying to be national powerhouse programs, they do things like that. Ohio State, in any era, would have likely fired Jon Cooper for his abject failure to beat Michigan.

Again, if you care about beating Ohio State and winning the Big Ten, Harbaugh must be fired. If you don't, keep him and you'll be 9-3/10-2 every year and you'll be 0-6, 0-7, 0-8, 0-9, 0-10, 0-11, 0-12, 0-13, 0-14, 0-15, 0-16, etc. against Ohio State.

Dan Orlovsky: Michigan should fire Jim Harbaugh if expectation is to beat Ohio State

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Is Harbaugh actually responsible for the downfall of Dantonio's Michigan State team?     Does his presence hurt MSU recruiting or is Dantonio just too stubborn for his own good.  

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7 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Is Harbaugh actually responsible for the downfall of Dantonio's Michigan State team?     Does his presence hurt MSU recruiting or is Dantonio just too stubborn for his own good.  

when michigan is recruiting well, state usually does not do as well.

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8 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

Is Harbaugh actually responsible for the downfall of Dantonio's Michigan State team?     Does his presence hurt MSU recruiting or is Dantonio just too stubborn for his own good.  

Yes and yes, then add in PSU re-emergence and the Nassar impact and MSU is back to being MSU pre RR/Hoke & Sandusky/PSU issue.

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Are we ready for the Wisconsin game 2.0 tomorrow?

Bama -7 is a steal.  Maybe Michigan scores some points but I don't see how they can stop Bama's offense.  It might get ugly.

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2 hours ago, Deleterious said:

I really don't understand that spread.

WHy do you think it's that low?  Does that mean that most of the money is on Michigan right now and they are putting it low to entice more plays for Alabama?  

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

WHy do you think it's that low?  Does that mean that most of the money is on Michigan right now and they are putting it low to entice more plays for Alabama?  

This says 83% of the bets are on Alabama.

https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/public-betting

Vegas isn't shy about picking sides.  In the Mayweather-McConnel fight there was huge amounts of money on McConnel and Vegas didn't move the line very much at all.  They figured Mayweather was a lock so why not let people bet on McConnel and clean up.

That tells me Vegas thinks Michigan can keep it close or else they would be moving the line with that heavy money on Alabama.  Maybe they can since Alabama has a new QB and some DB's going to miss the game.

I thought Jones was fairly good against Auburn, and they have a better defense than Michigan IMO.  Maybe Alabama wont care because it's not the playoffs.  I don't know.

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Maybe they are hoping it turns out like the Utah/Texas game where the team that lost their last game to miss the playoff plays uninspired against a team that has something to prove. 

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The O/U has started to move.  Up a point, point and a half depending where you look.  Spread is the same.

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