Jump to content

Deleterious

2019 Michigan Football

Recommended Posts

15 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

In a perfect world, where I could have anyone I wanted, either Urban Meyer or John Harbaugh would be my first two choices. Knowing those are completely unrealistic I would look at any of the following names . . .

PJ Fleck, Luke Fickell, Matt Rhule, Bob Stoops, Brent Venables, Jeff Scott, Mike Norvell, and yes, possibly Chris Petersen. I've soured a bit on Petersen given that I thought he would dominate the Pac 10 at Washington with Oregon and USC having had down years while he was at Washington. While he was successful there, I'm not completely sold on the idea of him coming to the Big Ten and being as dominate as I once thought he could be.

Fleck, Fickell, and Rhule would be my top 3 choices. Fleck just reupped for 6 years with Minnesota, but I have no doubt Michigan has the financial resources to buy his contract out. The question is, would he be willing to come here? Fickell is building a strong program in Cincinnati and has long standing recruiting ties in Ohio to help get Michigan back into that football hotbed. Yeah, I get it, he's an Ohio State guy, but so was Bo. Back a dump truck full of money on his front porch and give him free reign to do what he wants, which means recruit how OSU does. Matt Rhule has Penn State ties and may be holding out for that job or may never want to go to a Big Ten school other than Penn State. Rhule is also getting rumored for NFL coaching jobs in the future.

luke fickell...the guy who lost to brady hoke.

i remember your love affair with chris petersen the last time around.  how did that work out in washington?  a pac ten title during usc's nadir?  congrats.  harbaugh was better at stanford than petersen was at udub.  now washington is 7-4 and he quits.

you want everyone fired the minute they dont win a championship.  let me remind you that the grass is not always greener.

ask connor cook.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

One of the longstanding problems with Michigan football, that predates Harbaugh, is the way we recruit. That has to change if we want to be in the National Championship picture at years end. We have to mirror, as much as we can, what Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, LSU are doing down south

LOL - Don't get your hopes up Tater. There is almost nothing I can think of that is less likely to happen at UM than this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will say in regards to Harbaugh one thing that has really disappointed me with him has been the overall play of the QBs.  I was kinda hoping he'd be a "QB whisperer" but that really hasn't been the case.   I mean Patterson may not be what we hoped for but he has been solid and Rudock was a pleasant surprise but I was hoping and expecting that we'd be getting top flight QB play almost every year and that hasn't been the case    Hopefully that will change starting next year with McCaffrey/Milton.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

I will say in regards to Harbaugh one thing that has really disappointed me with him has been the overall play of the QBs.  I was kinda hoping he'd be a "QB whisperer" but that really hasn't been the case.   I mean Patterson may not be what we hoped for but he has been solid and Rudock was a pleasant surprise but I was hoping and expecting that we'd be getting top flight QB play almost every year and that hasn't been the case    Hopefully that will change starting next year with McCaffrey/Milton.   

i dont think patterson was solid.  i think he was a huge disappointment.

like you said, next year you get milton/mccaffery which are harbaugh recruits.

as was pointed out in a nice michigan daily article, harbaugh has returned michigan to the pre richrod/hoke/bill martin disaster days.  they win about 9 or 10 games a year.  they compete with the big boys again.  theyre a top 10-15 program.

the difference is ohio state has recruited on a different level since tressell got there and it turned up another notch when urban brought his circus to town.

while michigan recruited with ohio state through the late 90s and even the early 00s, they havent kept up.  this current osu crew loses games in the big ten only with weather related flukes, turnovers, or when they dont care to try.  and they will always try against michigan.

their hope is that the ncaa punishes ohio state or michigan gets a fluky game or player who can win a game all by themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Buddha said:

luke fickell...the guy who lost to brady hoke.

i remember your love affair with chris petersen the last time around.  how did that work out in washington?  a pac ten title during usc's nadir?  congrats.  harbaugh was better at stanford than petersen was at udub.  now washington is 7-4 and he quits.

you want everyone fired the minute they dont win a championship.  let me remind you that the grass is not always greener.

ask connor cook.

The grass is not always greener, we could fire him and end up back in a Rich Rod 2.0 era. But if we want to sit with the big kids, it's what has to be done. It's simply a risk I'm willing to take. I'm thankful for the tremendous turnaround Harbaugh did for the Michigan program. But he was brought in to win Big Ten titles and compete with Ohio State, he has not done either and will not for the foreseeable future.

I feel pretty certain if Gus Malzahn went 0-5 in the Iron Bowl against Alabama or Kirby Smart the same against Florida the fan bases of those schools would be demanding heads roll and those coaches would likely be replaced. Why is it too much to ask of the school we all support? It's not like I'm a Wake Forest or Vanderbilt fan sitting here, demanding we compete with the elite football schools. To steal a line from Brady Hoke, this is Michigan for God sake.

On the issue of Fickell, what he did in one year at OSU, when they were in the NCAA dog house is irrelevant. He's proven at Cincinnati that he can recruit in Ohio where Michigan needs to do more in, build a successful program in consecutive seasons, and win.

If you want to continue to watch Harbaugh get emasculated on the football field year in and year out by Ohio State then so be it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i dont think patterson was solid.  i think he was a huge disappointment.

like you said, next year you get milton/mccaffery which are harbaugh recruits.

as was pointed out in a nice michigan daily article, harbaugh has returned michigan to the pre richrod/hoke/bill martin disaster days.  they win about 9 or 10 games a year.  they compete with the big boys again.  theyre a top 10-15 program.

the difference is ohio state has recruited on a different level since tressell got there and it turned up another notch when urban brought his circus to town.

while michigan recruited with ohio state through the late 90s and even the early 00s, they havent kept up.  this current osu crew loses games in the big ten only with weather related flukes, turnovers, or when they dont care to try.  and they will always try against michigan.

their hope is that the ncaa punishes ohio state or michigan gets a fluky game or player who can win a game all by themselves.

Agreed. Patterson had stretches in almost every game where he simply could not hit his receiver where he could make the play or make any YAC.

One way to see the Michigan football fan's plight is to realize that John Beilein may have been the worst thing to happen to M football fans since the Tom Osborne sympathy poll vote. Beilein has left UM football recruiting with no wiggle room to follow down the path of OSU/Alabama at all. John took UM basketball to the pinnacle of the NCAA while running the program I believe other coaches voted the cleanest (or nearly) in the country. He has left the bar so high for the other revenue sport coaches that unless an Ara Parsegian is re-incarnated in maze and blue colors the only way they will ever get to Indianapolis is like Buddha said - a LOT of luck. :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The grass is not always greener, we could fire him and end up back in a Rich Rod 2.0 era. But if we want to sit with the big kids, it's what has to be done. It's simply a risk I'm willing to take. I'm thankful for the tremendous turnaround Harbaugh did for the Michigan program. But he was brought in to win Big Ten titles and compete with Ohio State, he has not done either and will not for the foreseeable future.

I feel pretty certain if Gus Malzahn went 0-5 in the Iron Bowl against Alabama or Kirby Smart the same against Florida the fan bases of those schools would be demanding heads roll and those coaches would likely be replaced. Why is it too much to ask of the school we all support? It's not like I'm a Wake Forest or Vanderbilt fan sitting here, demanding we compete with the elite football schools. To steal a line from Brady Hoke, this is Michigan for God sake.

On the issue of Fickell, what he did in one year at OSU, when they were in the NCAA dog house is irrelevant. He's proven at Cincinnati that he can recruit in Ohio where Michigan needs to do more in, build a successful program in consecutive seasons, and win.

If you want to continue to watch Harbaugh get emasculated on the football field year in and year out by Ohio State then so be it.

i share your disappointment, but i dont think any of the options youve listed will be any better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Deleterious said:

Both ESPN bowl projectors have Michigan in the Citrus Bowl.  One has them playing Auburn, the other Alabama.  

UM would be in for a beat down of Ohio State proportions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe if Michigan continues to get run off the field by the elite schools it will help build the case for those of us who want Harbaugh replaced. Maybe if Alabama runs up 50+ on them we'll get our wish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/4/2019 at 9:23 AM, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Maybe if Michigan continues to get run off the field by the elite schools it will help build the case for those of us who want Harbaugh replaced. Maybe if Alabama runs up 50+ on them we'll get our wish.

I want Michigan to be better and win against OSU but to want to blow the program up to me seems silly.  OSU is just way better relative to the NCAA now than the OSU of Bo's era was vs the rest of the NCAA at that time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, sabretooth said:

I want Michigan to be better and win against OSU but to want to blow the program up to me seems silly.  OSU is just way better relative to the NCAA now than the OSU of Bo's era was vs the rest of the NCAA at that time.

So what you're telling me is that when Harbaugh was first hired if someone had told you they would be 0-5 against Ohio state and have zero Big Ten Championships that you would have been fine with that? If you wouldn't have been ok with it then, don't suddenly lower the bar for this guy and be ok with it today.

If you want to compete with the Clemsons and Ohio States of the college football world than you do need to blow up the program with a new coach and start over. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we need to totally revamp the program and bring in someone innovative from outside the area with new ideas!  someone who took a new offense and made a name for himself taking a medium sized program up the ladder to the point where they could challenge and beat the big boys.

someone like, i dont know, rich rodriguez!  what could go wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Changing coaches is overrated.   Good teams find a coach that runs a clean program and stick with him win or lose.   

As the axiom goes,  if you try the same thing over and over again, you can expect that eventually you will get the result that you want.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just petition the NCAA to expand the playoffs to a 64 team pool.  Michigan makes the playoffs every year that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tater's last crush was chris peterson.  who won 7, 12, 10, 10, and 7.  and then quit.

is that better than harbaugh because he could win the pac 10 when u$c was down?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if ohio state got punished like usc or penn state got punished, michigan would be able to win like washington won.

but the ncaa doesnt have the balls to do that to ohio state like they did to usc.  not yet anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

So what you're telling me is that when Harbaugh was first hired if someone had told you they would be 0-5 against Ohio state and have zero Big Ten Championships that you would have been fine with that?

No, I would not have been fine with that, because I expected Harbaugh to be a world-class coach with the existing group (and in many ways he was), and a world-class recruiter (which he has not been).  I believed that Michigan was poised to be an elite program.  What I absolutely failed to comprehend about college football until the last few years (I thank G2 and others for pointing this out) is how difficult or nearly impossible it is to build an elite program that's not in the south.  Top 10?  Demonstrably true.  However, championship-level?....OSU seems to have sucked up the top-level recruits north of the M/D line for the time being. 

Does that mean that Michigan can't overtake OSU in the future?  It does not mean that; with Meyer gone, it's possible that a power-shift opportunity is present.  OTOH, it's **possible** (I see it suggested often but I have no way to verify independently) that structural differences in organizational culture between U/M and OSU might make overtaking them in recruiting extremely difficult (academic standards, willingness to bend the rules, etc.).

Quote

If you wouldn't have been ok with it then, don't suddenly lower the bar for this guy and be ok with it today.

Life is a constant negotiation between expectations/hope and reality.  I believe I know more about the situation today than I did back then.  I also know that Harbaugh is not a football god who can overtake an elite competitor with a snap of the fingers, especially **if** there are structural issues in the way as some have suggested.  It's also possible that Harbaugh will be able to figure out how to out-recruit Ryan's crew now that Meyer is gone and things will have shifted towards U/M over the next few years.

It also bears note, though you seem to dismiss this, that U/M is in far better competitive shape than it was when JH took over.  They are not an elite top 5 team (yet), but they are a solid Top 10-15 team every year, winning double-digit games, and have eaten MSU's lunch from an organizational standpoint. 

Quote

If you want to compete with the Clemsons and Ohio States of the college football world than you do need to blow up the program with a new coach and start over. 

I would love to compete with the best of the best, but for all of my childhood the Bo teams never really competed for a National Title, and I was perfectly happy (other than 1984 which was a stinker). 

Yes, the Bo teams beat OSU more often than not, but that OSU program was not anything even remotely close to the juggernaut they have been for the last 20 years....this year sporting three Heisman level stars at QB, RB and DT, and a long list of very good players.

Firing Harbaugh would be the wrong move IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

if ohio state got punished like usc or penn state got punished, michigan would be able to win like washington won.

but the ncaa doesnt have the balls to do that to ohio state like they did to usc.  not yet anyway.

I mean, Wisconsin would probably still wax them in the conference championship game.

So you need to make up some type of violation for them too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Deleterious said:

I mean, Wisconsin would probably still wax them in the conference championship game.

So you need to make up some type of violation for them too.

your football posts make your basketball posts look smart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Buddha said:

tater's last crush was chris peterson.  who won 7, 12, 10, 10, and 7.  and then quit.

is that better than harbaugh because he could win the pac 10 when u$c was down?

Yes, it is better because he won the Pac 12. Harbaugh didn't even need to beat Ohio State in 2016 to go to a Big Ten Championship but instead he and his team choked it away against Iowa and cost themselves a chance. The one real shot Harbaugh had at a Big Ten Championship game was blown to an 8-4 Iowa team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...