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Deleterious

2019 Michigan Football

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10 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

It would be nice if UM could beat OSU once in awhile but the fact is other than those few years in the 90s where they took advantage of John Cooper OSU has had the better program and won consistently against Michigan for decades so I think it's unreasonable to expect any coach to compete with OSU on a regular basis.   

Sure you might find someone that will get a fluke win against them here and there like Dantonio did with MSU but I don't think there is anything stopping Harbaugh from being that guy.   We damn near won a couple years ago, and also I feel that we've kinda got unlucky with the schedule.  By that I mean the years where we were actually close to as talented as them we always seem to end up playing them in Columbus where as the years where they are clearly better(like this year) we get them at home. 

I guess the bottom line is that if people want Harbaugh gone that's cool, but I wouldn't fire him just cause he couldn't beat OSU cause I think you are going to be hard pressed to find anybody that is going to beat them outside of the fluke occurrence.   What bothers me more is losing to non OSU teams cause I don't think there is any reason why we can't compete with every other team in the Big 10.     

pretty much agree with this.

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7 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

https://ugawire.usatoday.com/2019/03/27/college-football-game-attendance-still-on-the-decline-why-whats-the-solution-how-does-it-relate-to-uga-football/

So in the last 25 yrs, OSU, MSU, UM, MN, WI, IA (just off the top of my head) have all spent major $ to expand and renovate stadiums that are drawing fewer fans than they did before they sunk the $.

College football needs solutions to no less than 4 trends that are all moving in questionable directions for it's future: Attendance is falling, the medical fallout issues for the players are unresolved, major conference competitive imbalance is getting worse, and the 'labor situation' with the players is headed for an upheaval. I don't have any serious predictions on how thing will change, but I will predict they are going to change a lot.

These schools have more money than they know what to do with. That’s been a large factor in the big money renovations. 
 

Attendance is down across almost all sports. Each of the four factors you mentioned that need solutions have pretty easy solutions. 
 

I’ll counter your prediction and say that things will change only slightly. 

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7 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

It would be nice if UM could beat OSU once in awhile but the fact is other than those few years in the 90s where they took advantage of John Cooper OSU has had the better program and won consistently against Michigan for decades so I think it's unreasonable to expect any coach to compete with OSU on a regular basis.   

Sure you might find someone that will get a fluke win against them here and there like Dantonio did with MSU but I don't think there is anything stopping Harbaugh from being that guy.   We damn near won a couple years ago, and also I feel that we've kinda got unlucky with the schedule.  By that I mean the years where we were actually close to as talented as them we always seem to end up playing them in Columbus where as the years where they are clearly better(like this year) we get them at home. 

I guess the bottom line is that if people want Harbaugh gone that's cool, but I wouldn't fire him just cause he couldn't beat OSU cause I think you are going to be hard pressed to find anybody that is going to beat them outside of the fluke occurrence.   What bothers me more is losing to non OSU teams cause I don't think there is any reason why we can't compete with every other team in the Big 10.     

I look at it a different way. I don't think a fluke win against OSU should save his job.

This was the year that he would finally get his players, his schemes, and the favorable home schedule all lined up.  Now it feels like we should have no expectation to compete for a conference title?

We are 5 years in and I don't see the program trending in the way as was expected when he was hired nor is it commensurate with his compensation.  I question the program's talent development and his in-game decision making. I am fine parting ways.

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2 hours ago, Shelton said:

These schools have more money than they know what to do with.

IIRC, UM brings in as much or more money than any program in the country, They spent $227 million on the Stadium reno against a theoretical (as per Forbes) "profit" of ~70 million. That is not a bad ratio, but if that is the ratio for the maybe the most profitable program in the country (again - if you believe Forbes), I have to believe most of these stadium expansions have pretty terrible ROIs.

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Georgia fired Mark Richt after seasons where he went 10-3 and 9-3 because they were tired of being an almost-elite team and believed they could do better. And they have gotten better with Kirby Smart at the helm. If Michigan wants to compete with the big boys of the SEC + Ohio State and Oklahoma, than Harbaugh should be replaced.

I don't buy this argument that Michigan can't compete with Ohio State. Harbaugh may not be able to compete with them, but there is some coach out there in America that I believe could and it is our AD's job to find them. Whether that coach is Urban Meyer himself, Bob Stoops, PJ Fleck, Matt Campbell, Jeff Scott, whoever.

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10 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

It would be nice if UM could beat OSU once in awhile but the fact is other than those few years in the 90s where they took advantage of John Cooper OSU has had the better program and won consistently against Michigan for decades so I think it's unreasonable to expect any coach to compete with OSU on a regular basis.   

Sure you might find someone that will get a fluke win against them here and there like Dantonio did with MSU but I don't think there is anything stopping Harbaugh from being that guy.   We damn near won a couple years ago, and also I feel that we've kinda got unlucky with the schedule.  By that I mean the years where we were actually close to as talented as them we always seem to end up playing them in Columbus where as the years where they are clearly better(like this year) we get them at home. 

I guess the bottom line is that if people want Harbaugh gone that's cool, but I wouldn't fire him just cause he couldn't beat OSU cause I think you are going to be hard pressed to find anybody that is going to beat them outside of the fluke occurrence.   What bothers me more is losing to non OSU teams cause I don't think there is any reason why we can't compete with every other team in the Big 10.     

John Cooper was fired and replaced with Tressel because he could not beat Michigan. Tressel came in and started beating Michigan. Why can't we fire Harbaugh for the same reasons as OSU fired Cooper?

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12 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Georgia fired Mark Richt after seasons where he went 10-3 and 9-3 because they were tired of being an almost-elite team and believed they could do better. And they have gotten better with Kirby Smart at the helm. If Michigan wants to compete with the big boys of the SEC + Ohio State and Oklahoma, than Harbaugh should be replaced.

I don't buy this argument that Michigan can't compete with Ohio State. Harbaugh may not be able to compete with them, but there is some coach out there in America that I believe could and it is our AD's job to find them. Whether that coach is Urban Meyer himself, Bob Stoops, PJ Fleck, Matt Campbell, Jeff Scott, whoever.

You keep bringing up Urban Meyer but he’s not an option for UM.  
He makes it a point to try and not burn bridges when he abruptly leaves places and taking the UM job a year after “retiring” from OSU would be nuking that bridge.     In fact, he’d probably take any interest from UM and very publicly reject them to gain even more favor from OSU fans.     
 

PJ Fleck would be a home run.  

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9 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Georgia fired Mark Richt after seasons where he went 10-3 and 9-3 because they were tired of being an almost-elite team and believed they could do better. And they have gotten better with Kirby Smart at the helm. If Michigan wants to compete with the big boys of the SEC + Ohio State and Oklahoma, than Harbaugh should be replaced.

I don't buy this argument that Michigan can't compete with Ohio State. Harbaugh may not be able to compete with them, but there is some coach out there in America that I believe could and it is our AD's job to find them. Whether that coach is Urban Meyer himself, Bob Stoops, PJ Fleck, Matt Campbell, Jeff Scott, whoever.

OSU just has so many more advantages over Michigan that it would be almost impossible to find somebody to compete with them.  First and foremost the state of Ohio is a far bigger hotbed for high school football then the state of Michigan,  you would need to find a coach that could somehow convince all those kids that grew up their entire lives dreaming of going to Ohio State to suddenly pick their rival instead.  

Secondly on top of that unlike Michigan, Ohio State has had a history of winning National Championships and competing for them in the lifetimes of potential recruits.   Aside from a couple seasons Michigan has been a perennial 2 or 3 loss team since the 80s, now we are expected to find somebody to change that?     OSU has more NFL players than any college aside from Alabama I believe so again you're going to have to convince recruits that you are better for them than a team that churns out top players year after year?  Tall order.    

Obviously there is more to winning in college than just getting the best recruits so maybe despite these challenges we can find a coach that can develop the lesser talent that we will have compared to them and/or draw up better xs and o's on the field to compete with them but even if we do the fact that Ohio State is going to have more talent virtually every year is going to mean that they are going to probably beat us majority of the time no matter how could of tactician we get.  

With that said, I'm not opposed to firing Harbaugh, I just think many Michigan fans have unrealistic expectations and are going to continue to be disappointed in every coach we get if they expect to be consistently on Ohio State's level.   

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37 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

IIRC, UM brings in as much or more money than any program in the country, They spent $227 million on the Stadium reno against a theoretical (as per Forbes) "profit" of ~70 million. That is not a bad ratio, but if that is the ratio for the maybe the most profitable program in the country (again - if you believe Forbes), I have to believe most of these stadium expansions have pretty terrible ROIs.

Big ten teams get payouts from the conference of 50MM per year right now. That’s in addition to whatever revenue each school gets on their own. 
 

It is of course up to each school to determine how they want to spend all this money, but they would appear to have ample cash flow to spend a lot of it on facilities upgrades.

The point is, losing butts in seats (which is not something unique to college football) is not having a substantial effect on their bottom line. Not to mention, one of the factors often cited for the decrease in attendance is increased ticket prices and concession prices and things of that nature. For all we know game day revenue may be steady or even increasing despite reduced attendance.

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Realistically osu recruits like Alabama and we don't. As long as they have good coaches and better players it's going to be tough beating them very often. 

There's no excuse for a performance like last year though. Make them beat you with that talent, don't lose it for them. 

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1 hour ago, Shelton said:

The point is, losing butts in seats (which is not something unique to college football) is not having a substantial effect on their bottom line. Not to mention, one of the factors often cited for the decrease in attendance is increased ticket prices and concession prices and things of that nature. For all we know game day revenue may be steady or even increasing despite reduced attendance.

well that is the question - does losing the those fannies in the seat sow the seeds of losing all those other revenue streams in the next generation? (Basically the baseball argument). I don't know the answer but I think it's a real risk.

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27 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

well that is the question - does losing the those fannies in the seat sow the seeds of losing all those other revenue streams in the next generation? (Basically the baseball argument). I don't know the answer but I think it's a real risk.

I don’t know the answer either but my feeling is that the baseball argument is a poor one. I don’t think baseball is in trouble of losing its other revenue streams and I don’t think college football is in danger of losing its revenue streams. I don’t think it is important for fans or potential fans to attend games in person to establish/maintain and interest in the sport. 

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He was a 2020 commit.  Quitting for medical reasons.  Harbaugh will honor his scholarship and offered him a spot on the staff.  I assume as a student manager or something.

 

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4 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

He was a 2020 commit.  Quitting for medical reasons.  Harbaugh will honor his scholarship and offered him a spot on the staff.  I assume as a student manager or something.

 

Harbaugh seems to have a reasonable amount of class in most areas but his lack of class on twitter make it hard for the rest to show through.

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13 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Harbaugh seems to have a reasonable amount of class in most areas but his lack of class on twitter make it hard for the rest to show through.

What do you mean by his lack of class on Twitter?

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24 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

MSU's Joe Bachie failed a drug test, Big Ten declares him ineligible. It's being appealed.

Tough deal for Joe.   Apparently, the guy he met at the gym with the sweet mullet and the tiger zubas wasn’t really a licensed physician and Stanozolol isn’t just a fancy name for Vitamin B.  

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Ohio State says they expect a 4 game ban for potential number 1 pick Chase Young.   If that happens maybe we'll be able to keep it within 3 TDs this year.  

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5 hours ago, RandyMarsh said:

Ohio State says they expect a 4 game ban for potential number 1 pick Chase Young.   If that happens maybe we'll be able to keep it within 3 TDs this year.  

yeah - they were really hurting  today....:ponder:

'Bama gave up 46 today. I may have missed one but based on a quick look that is the most points they have given up in at least 15 yrs.

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15 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Man, MSU just choked one away.

Last time they won a football game?  September.

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2 minutes ago, FRM710 said:

Last time they won a football game?  September.

D'Antonio seemed like an observer at his own funeral at his post game. Not that I've followed him closely and maybe he is always like that but most FB coaches that come across that detached are not long for their jobs.

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6 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

D'Antonio seemed like an observer at his own funeral at his post game. Not that I've followed him closely and maybe he is always like that but most FB coaches that come across that detached are not long for their jobs.

pride goeth before the fall.

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I-L-L!

I-N-I!

illinois will now be stupid enough to give lovie smith an extension.

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