Jump to content

HeyAbbott

Tiger's GM Contract Extended

Recommended Posts

I thought maybe they'd put Avila in a special advisory role or even let him keep a nice title while hiring a real head of baseball ops whom would actually have a better idea how to bring the Tigers into the 2020s. That would mean poaching someone from an organization that knows what it's doing, is at the forefront. The Tigers still seem to be playing catch up to where teams were in 2015, while the better teams are all onto bigger and better things.

I really thought Avila would be gone after the deadline. And I'd think this buys him another two years, while the team falls further and further behind the forefront and we're left with hoping every first round pick is a winner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The Astros turned things around only once the team was sold, the front office was cleaned out, and they employed a diametrically opposite approach. That’s why the Astros are the franchise you see today. They didn’t do it with the same brain trust who’d been there 15-20 years.

So, is that the approach that we are following now?  Or are we wandering in the wilderness for the next few years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, ktpinnacle said:

So, is that the approach that we are following now?  Or are we wandering in the wilderness for the next few years?

Well, we haven’t seen a franchise sale, front office cleaning or diametrically opposite approach implementation, so ... you tell me. :ermm:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, irvink said:

Very, very sad.

The thing is.....you really don't know this.   Chin up, it's probably better than you think. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GM’s don’t matter. Managers don’t matter. The Tiger prospects who pan out will be called up. A major league team will be assembled every year and at some point FA’s will be added.

That team will either win or lose. 

Many crap GMs have won titles under the eye of crap managers. It’s baseball - none of it matters - the fortuitous bounces of the ball that result in wins are merely additional strikes of lightning in each team’s tiny baseball bottle.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assumed the Tigers would hire a new President of Baseball Operations within the next year or so, similar to Illitch hiring Yzerman while initially keeping Holland on. Technically, nothin within this announcement changes that as Avila could shift to a more senior role eventually. Holland was signed to a contract extension before being replaced a year later, so there is still hope. They've hired a bunch of new data scientists the past 2 years, but the Tigers need a top Exec who really understands it and guys like Chadd/Littlefield/Moore also need to be replaced by more forward thinking people. The overarching strategy of tanking to acquire top 5 picks for several years in a row was a good one, but their international operations need a huge overhaul. Their lower level minor league teams at A ball and lower should be flush with talent at this point in the rebuild, but instead those teams are doing terrible. Erie has a nice collection of talent, but that's about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Scottwood said:

I assumed the Tigers would hire a new President of Baseball Operations within the next year or so, similar to Illitch hiring Yzerman while initially keeping Holland on. Technically, nothin within this announcement changes that as Avila could shift to a more senior role eventually.

This is a good point. Any owner should be on the look-out for any top team management people that become available.

OTOH, I wouldn't pay too much attention to win rates in the minors. It's the number to top prospects that actually come through. You can have a ton of high floor/low ceiling guys in your system, win like crazy, and never help your MLB team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

So we have a sports owner that the fans are persuaded knows nothing about being one, despite being probably the only sports owner in the country that grew up in the middle of franchises in two major sports, who has engineered everyone in the world's dream hire to run one of his franchises,  (brooming K Holland despite the Ilitch org being paralyzed by its misplaced loyalty) who has already seen a number of the team's biggest past organizational failures (most of which have been cited here) being addressed, but he is still a Moran and is slammed based on what people speculate he will or won't do in 3 or 4 yrs.

OK.

I get it, Avila doesn't look like the sharpest tool in the shed when he gives interviews, and I could care less because that criterion has zero to do with how good he really is at his job. Something much harder for any of us to see than his TV skills.

I have no idea if this org is going to succeed with this management cast, but aside from not having any players - which is 95% a legacy issue, I don't see much In the way of criticisms based on any objective, discernible facts. The franchise has made the moves to join the 21st century, things hinge on present and future  draft picks and trade acquisitions who are still in the minors.

I guess I’ve never understood the general assumption that Chris Ilitch wasn’t a fan of baseball and/or wasn't qualified to become a good owner.

Everybody thought Mike Ilitch was a great owner, but the Tigers went through a heck of a lengthy losing period under his watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Tigers' Organization celebrated Avila's extension yesterday by playing 10 games and losing 9 of them.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, gzbach said:

The Tigers' Organization celebrated Avila's extension yesterday by playing 10 games and losing 9 of them.

 

 

yeah - yesterday was brutal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Buddha said:

what was the point of doing this now?  is Al such a hot commodity you had to lock him down and keep other teams at bay?  i doubt it.

It's a PR move.  Ilitch is under the perception that Al Avila is very well liked by Tiger fans and so he's giving them a reason to be hopeful in the future.  Even though the Tigers are not winning this year, at least we can have the joy of knowing that Al Avila is going to be here for a long time.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was pretty optimistic about the rebuild like a year ago but since then Candalario has shown he isn't as good as he first looked(starting to show some signs of life though), Fulmer got worse/injured, Norris hasn't really improved, I though Stewart would atleast be a solid bat but that isn't the case, ditto with Miggy.    

On the farm it seems like most of our prospects are kinda treading water, atleast the more highly thought of ones outside of Mize and Manning.  If they are showing improvements it's not on par with prospects from other teams, I think aside from those two all our better prospects have fallen in the rankings. 

Some of these things may be outside of Avila's control and who knows these prospects that I'm saying are treading water may hit the switch at any moment but regardless to me things just look more bleak than they did a year ago and when you're rebuilding I don't think that should be the case.   I think each year you should feel like you're getting closer to the light at the end of the tunnel but atleast to me it seems like that light is just going further and further away.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see the attraction to the thinking that Avila, after having been extended as general manager beyond his remaining year and a half, will step aside with his entire front office team to allow a newly-hired analytically-focused group to implement a radically different rebuilding strategy more consistent with principles that have recently led to successful rebuilds for other organizations. I find that line of thinking attractive as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I can see the attraction to the thinking that Avila, after having been extended as general manager beyond his remaining year and a half, will step aside with his entire front office team to allow a newly-hired analytically-focused group to implement a radically different rebuilding strategy more consistent with principles that have recently led to successful rebuilds for other organizations. I find that line of thinking attractive as well.

Been working on your sarcasm, eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Casimir said:

I guess I’ve never understood the general assumption that Chris Ilitch wasn’t a fan of baseball and/or wasn't qualified to become a good owner.

Everybody thought Mike Ilitch was a great owner, but the Tigers went through a heck of a lengthy losing period under his watch.

When you’re wandering in the desert for as long as we were, seeing the same guy who led you there all of a sudden start throwing money and prospects around pretty indiscriminately to make you into a top-three team in the league for a spell looks pretty good in comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Yoda said:

Mine is his inability to acquire hitters who know how to be selective and not swing at every pitch they see. We learned this 20 years ago. He hasn't gotten the memo yet. Also his inability to progressive-thinking talent evaluators, choosing to just stick with DD's guys, who couldn't develop talent when he was here either. 

There are plenty of valid criticisms, but this isn't one of them. Everyone in our top 20 prospects has a BB% of at least 8%. Working counts and drawing walks is about the only thing most of our positional prospects are doing a good job of this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Been working on your sarcasm, eh?

You’d be reasonable for saying it looks like I hadn’t worked on it at all. 😁

The idea that Avila is going to get extended and then kicked upstairs so the pocket protector people can finally run things, or get extended and then get fired this season or next, strikes me as pretty unlikely. The extension strikes me as a doubling down of the strategies we’ve seen so far, and maybe even as a rage against the new way of thinking in baseball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm reminded of Jimmy Devallano telling Mike and Marian Ilitch in 1982 that it would take 8 years to win. It actually took 15, but they hung with Jimmy. Of course, The wings were actually quite competitive by the late 80s/early 90s. Having said this, Avila has only had a couple of years, so it wouldn't really be fair to take him out right now. But I would have certainly waited to extend him until next year. We need to start seeing something from these prospects. What I'm seeing is a ton of injuries. That could be bad luck, or it could be a flaw in the way our minor leaguers are being trained and handled. I'm starting to wonder if it's the latter. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

When you’re wandering in the desert for as long as we were, seeing the same guy who led you there all of a sudden start throwing money and prospects around pretty indiscriminately to make you into a top-three team in the league for a spell looks pretty good in comparison.

The same guy wanted to throw lots of money at Juan Gonzalez and Chris Davis and authored the extensions for Martinez and Cabrera which, oh big the way, are disasters as far as return on investment is concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

again, why NOW?  wouldnt you want to wait and see how some of these acquisitions do before extending avila? a lot of the minor leaguers he acquired are really struggling this year and only two (mize and manning) appear to be capable of being stars.  a lot of guys who look to max out as average at best.

so what was the rush? i dont get it.

im more in the incompetent ownership camp.  i dont think you can use yzerman with the wings as some sort of indication chris illitch is good at anything.  yzerman fell into his lap.  he would have had to look for a new gm for the tigers and he instead picked the guy who has been there for 20 years.

picking the organizational guy is how organizations go stale, get passed by other hungrier and more advanced organizations, and become losers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

again, why NOW?

Great question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Buddha said:

again, why NOW?  wouldnt you want to wait and see how some of these acquisitions do before extending avila?

I don't get this argument. I really don't

It basically boils down to I don't have enough trut to extend the guy; but I do to let him trade are only valuable pieces left and get prospects to help the rebuild. Seems contradictory. 

And again, GM contracts extensions are really meaningless. The highest paid GM makes about $3 million a year. If they are at the deadline next year and all the prospects stink, do you think the family worth $6 billion won't fire the GM over a few million?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gzbach said:

The Tigers' Organization celebrated Avila's extension yesterday by playing 10 games and losing 9 of them.

cde317_e6c53eee7e744ef3bd69a62af53dc67d~

😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I don't get is how people are characterizing the improvement of the system from a consensus bottom 5 or last to a consensus Top 10 in a 2-3 year span as an abject failure.   How is that failing?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...