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bobrob2004

What will become of Ron Gardenhire?

What will become of Ron Gardenhire?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. How will the Tigers deal with Ron Gardenhire?

    • He will get fired before the end of the season.
      0
    • He will get fired after the season.
      3
    • He will play out his 3-year contract and not re-sign.
      26
    • He will re-sign either as an extension or after his 3-year deal expires.
      5


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1 hour ago, bobrob2004 said:

I would have brought up some of those highly touted prospects, even if it were for a game or two.  As a fan, would I rather watch another one of Zimmermann's 4-inning, 6-run games or watch future all-star Casey Mize pitch a game?  Sometimes you need to pander to the fans, even if it's just for a handful of games.  Or do they really want me to get excited about Tyler Alexander and Gregory Soto?  Maybe they are the real future of the Tigers franchise even though none of the top 100 prospect rankings recognize them?  

And no, I don't buy into the fact that having Casey Mize pitch 2 ML games is going to "ruin" his development.  

 

1 hour ago, bobrob2004 said:

Jordan Zimmermann should have been pitching out of the bullpen for the majority of the year.  I would have liked to see Joe Jimenez be an opener for a few games.  Having Jimenez pitch the first inning and Zimmermann pitching the next 4 would not have changed the outcome of the game at all, but it would have been a lot more enjoyable watching that as a fan.  And I would be a lot more open about Gardenhire turning into an innovator.  

So out of 1,433 innings pitched, you'd have brought up Mize and started his service clock for 10-12 innings worth of work.  That's an Avila move rather than a Gardenhire move.

You'd have moved Zimermann to the bullpen and moved an equally cruddy pitcher who is used to pitching one inning at a time to the beginning of the game for only one inning?  So essentially you're shuffling chairs on the Titanic?

Here's a little secret.  The pitching sucked.  It didn't matter how it was arranged.  The pitchers that were available (and by common ******* sense Mize, Manning, and Skubal were kept in the minors to develop rather than appease you for 30-36 innings) were truly awful as a group.  They carried 13 pitchers most of the season out of necessity.  Is that really on Gardenhire, or is that on Avila and the rebuild that they're going through?

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1 hour ago, bobrob2004 said:

I would have brought up some of those highly touted prospects, even if it were for a game or two.  As a fan, would I rather watch another one of Zimmermann's 4-inning, 6-run games or watch future all-star Casey Mize pitch a game?  Sometimes you need to pander to the fans, even if it's just for a handful of games.  Or do they really want me to get excited about Tyler Alexander and Gregory Soto?  Maybe they are the real future of the Tigers franchise even though none of the top 100 prospect rankings recognize them?  

And no, I don't buy into the fact that having Casey Mize pitch 2 ML games is going to "ruin" his development.  

But that's not the manager's call... that's an organizational decision by the FO and the field manager deals with it.  The manager doesn't have a say in calling up prospects.  They probably have a say of veterans and are given a choice by the FO over whehter they'd want play A,B, or C, but at that point the FO is ok with any of them coming up.

But guys like Mize and other prospects are out of scope of the manager to make decisions like that on.  They're told when to start them, how long to pitch, and whether SP or RP.

 

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4 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Here's a little secret.  The pitching sucked.  It didn't matter how it was arranged.  The pitchers that were available (and by common ******* sense Mize, Manning, and Skubal were kept in the minors to develop rather than appease you for 30-36 innings) were truly awful as a group.  They carried 13 pitchers most of the season out of necessity.  Is that really on Gardenhire, or is that on Avila and the rebuild that they're going through?

I already gave equal blame to Avila as well as Gardenhire.

Yes, as a fan I wanted Gardenhire to appease to my entertainment.  The team is going to lose anyways, might as well get some enjoyment out of it.  Rearranging the pitchers' roles would have given me that enjoyment.  You may disagree.  

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Just now, bobrob2004 said:

I already gave equal blame to Avila as well as Gardenhire.

Yes, as a fan I wanted Gardenhire to appease to my entertainment.  The team is going to lose anyways, might as well get some enjoyment out of it.  Rearranging the pitchers' roles would have given me that enjoyment.  You may disagree.  

So if Gardenhire is really as awful as you opine, why would you want him messing around with the strength of the future?

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3 minutes ago, Oblong said:

But that's not the manager's call... that's an organizational decision by the FO and the field manager deals with it.  The manager doesn't have a say in calling up prospects.  They probably have a say of veterans and are given a choice by the FO over whehter they'd want play A,B, or C, but at that point the FO is ok with any of them coming up.

But guys like Mize and other prospects are out of scope of the manager to make decisions like that on.  They're told when to start them, how long to pitch, and whether SP or RP.

 

I think the manager has some influence over calling up prospects.  Ultimately it's Avila's decision, but I don't think Gardenhire has no say at all in it.

I do think Gardenhire has control over who starts and who is in the bullpen.  Avila may control who is on the 25-man roster, but Gardy determines where who plays.  I mean, everyone got a chance to play centerfield this year.  

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

So if Gardenhire is really as awful as you opine, why would you want him messing around with the strength of the future?

I hardly think that Mize pitching 10 innings in the Majors this year would have messed him up.  

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Just now, bobrob2004 said:

I hardly think that Mize pitching 10 innings in the Majors this year would have messed him up.  

Would it have helped?  Enough to start his service clock?

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3 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

I mean, everyone got a chance to play centerfield this year.  

Zimmermann didn't.  Another example of Gardenhire being an awful manager.

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

Would it have helped?  Enough to start his service clock?

If Mize is truly a future great player, they will not need to use up all 3 of his options.

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9 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

If Mize is truly a future great player, they will not need to use up all 3 of his options.

Still doesn't make any sense to waste service time this season.  For 2 or 3 outings this past season?  What an absolute waste of time.

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Just now, Casimir said:

Still doesn't make any sense to waste service time this season.  For 2 or 3 outings this past season?  What an absolute waste of time.

How?  Was it a waste to have Verlander pitch 2 games in 2005?  

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17 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

How?  Was it a waste to have Verlander pitch 2 games in 2005?  

Are you guaranteeing what worked for Verlander will for Mize/Manning/Skubal?

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

Are you guaranteeing what worked for Verlander will for Mize/Manning/Skubal?

No, but why proceed with Mize any differently?  Is there something about Mize that should be taken into consideration with his service clock?  

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With pitchers I'm not as concerned about service time so if they think one of the guys are ready I wouldn't care if they made some starts next year.

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Regardless, it still goes back to the point that that is an Avila decision rather than a Gardenhire decision.

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Gardy technically used a 6 man rotation the last couple of months. Norris and VerHagen were more of a tandem. That was sort of working outside the box. Avila was probably involved with that too.

 

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3 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

it a waste to have Verlander pitch 2 games in 2005?  

absolutely not. You want a young ace to find out that he still needs to be even better than he is  in exactly that kind of situation where he knows he is going back to his MiLB club regardless of the outcome.

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The only thing I really didn't like was how Gardenhire would have a different guy play a different position every single game.  A guy would play SS one day, then CF the next, then 2nd base, etc.  Rotating guys around probably doesn't help with the defense and that can affect the pitchers.  But by time August rolled around, I was firmly entrenched in the I don't really care and I am probably not going to watch the game mode.

They just hired some guy who seems nice, can give a few good soundbytes here and there, and doesn't mind that the team sucks.

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Yes....they hired one of those inflatable clowns that I had as a kid.  Punch him in the face and he topples over....only to spring back up with the same crap eating grin he had when you belted him

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On 10/10/2019 at 12:15 PM, ROMAD1 said:

Gabe Kapler fired.  I once stood behind him for a wave runner rental in St.Petersburg Florida during the day before the Tigers played in Tampa.   He had a Michigan drivers license.  I stole his SSN from his also visible SSN card in his wallet and now have several mortgages that I applied for in his name that he doesn't even know about.  Its called Title Fraud and if you don't take steps to protect yourself you could lose your home. 

That's how you do it.  Nice going.

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7 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

Jordan Zimmermann should have been pitching out of the bullpen for the majority of the year.  I would have liked to see Joe Jimenez be an opener for a few games.  Having Jimenez pitch the first inning and Zimmermann pitching the next 4 would not have changed the outcome of the game at all, but it would have been a lot more enjoyable watching that as a fan.  And I would be a lot more open about Gardenhire turning into an innovator.  

While other things equal you would move a pitcher with Jordan Zimmerman’s current ability to the pen, in the real world, no one moves a starter signed to a 5/112 contract to the bullpen.

I too would like to see the Tigers consider using the opener assuming we have a very good middle guy, but the day the Tigers use an opener will be either a day after the team is sold and the front office is turned over 180 degrees, or after the Opener becomes standard pitcher strategy. 

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11 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

There is no expectations with a rookie manager...

A rookie manager would not be afraid to try new things as he is learning. 

Would the "no expectations" and the "not afraid to try new things" scenarios apply solely to a rebuild team while it is in the deepest depths of a full rebuild ..or apply to any rookie manager of any team?  For example ..what about Brad Ausmus 2014 and/or Joey Cora 2018?

 

11 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

Gardy leaned too much on tradition.  He had to have a 5-man rotation.  He had to have experienced starting pitchers.... He had to have a 7th inning man, an 8th inning man, and a closer...  

Sounds very much like the manager that Gardy replaced!

 

11 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

And I know a lot of it is because of Avila, and I'm no fan of him either.  Gardy was all talk and little action.  

I agree ..totally.

 

11 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

This team needs a complete overhaul of the front office and manager/coaches.  

Not sure about a 'complete' overhaul .. but definitely a major overhaul. 

Sometimes I think the 'good-old-boys' in the Tigers organization are like those two or three long-time overweight uncles who ..at a once-a-year family holiday get-together ..each ate 4 helpings of full-course thanksgiving dinner PLUS 7 helpings each of various desserts ..and now steadfastly believe that their only responsibility for the rest of the afternoon and evening is to relax in the recliner in front of the TV and burp/snore/fart for whatever time remains in the day and evening ..while the rest of the family are actively doing things together.

In other words ..they believe they are entitled to the 'fruits' of everybody else's labor while they do as little meaningful work as possible.

Not sure if 'drain-the-swamp' applies ..but sure would be nice to actually see actual credible talent from the executive / managerial / and coaching staffs.

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16 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

 

 

Would the "no expectations" and the "not afraid to try new things" scenarios apply solely to a rebuild team while it is in the deepest depths of a full rebuild ..or apply to any rookie manager of any team?  For example ..what about Brad Ausmus 2014 and/or Joey Cora 2018?

 

Sounds very much like the manager that Gardy replaced!

 

I agree ..totally.

 

Not sure about a 'complete' overhaul .. but definitely a major overhaul. 

Sometimes I think the 'good-old-boys' in the Tigers organization are like those two or three long-time overweight uncles who ..at a once-a-year family holiday get-together ..each ate 4 helpings of full-course thanksgiving dinner PLUS 7 helpings each of various desserts ..and now steadfastly believe that their only responsibility for the rest of the afternoon and evening is to relax in the recliner in front of the TV and burp/snore/fart for whatever time remains in the day and evening ..while the rest of the family are actively doing things together.

In other words ..they believe they are entitled to the 'fruits' of everybody else's labor while they do as little meaningful work as possible.

Not sure if 'drain-the-swamp' applies ..but sure would be nice to actually see actual credible talent from the executive / managerial / and coaching staffs.

I  do NOT snooze and snore after I pig out on the food that other people paid for and prepared.  I stay awake so I can watch football and drink my relatives' beer and booze.  You got me on the burping and farting, though

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1 hour ago, six-hopper said:

I  do NOT snooze and snore after I pig out on the food that other people paid for and prepared.  I stay awake so I can watch football and drink my relatives' beer and booze.  You got me on the burping and farting, though

Uncle six .. how you been?

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