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bobrob2004

What will become of Ron Gardenhire?

What will become of Ron Gardenhire?  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. How will the Tigers deal with Ron Gardenhire?

    • He will get fired before the end of the season.
      0
    • He will get fired after the season.
      3
    • He will play out his 3-year contract and not re-sign.
      24
    • He will re-sign either as an extension or after his 3-year deal expires.
      5


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16 hours ago, Tigrrfan said:

That's what separates the winners from the losers.  The reason why the Tigers lost so often is because the Tigers' organization was filled to the brim with losers ..

Developed and applied talent is the primary thing that separates winners from losers.

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4 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Shoulda watc       hed them ber t hhey worked on 'em

I did.  With Illadvisedhire at the helm, they sorta looked worse this year than before he took over.  

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Simply put managers don’t make players better or worse. These guys know what they are supposed to do.  They either can do it or can’t. 

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6 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Simply put managers don’t make players better or worse. These guys know what they are supposed to do.  They either can do it or can’t. 

I think you might be able to lay 'lackadaisical' play at a manager's doorstep, but other than Harold Castro in the OF on occasion, that does not seem to be a big Tiger problem. 

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2 hours ago, Oblong said:

Simply put managers don’t make players better or worse. These guys know what they are supposed to do.  They either can do it or can’t. 

This is it.  Ron Gardenhire is overrated.  

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With analytics even pitching changes can come via a computer. Maybe they should just hire Bill Burr as manager. Get some great sound bites

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10 hours ago, bobrob2004 said:

This is it.  Ron Gardenhire is overrated.  

How many games do you think Gardenhire cost the Tigers this season?

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18 hours ago, Oblong said:

I saw him at a Bellacino's while at lunch on Ford road in Dearborn.  I'm sitting there by the door and see a guy get out of a white Cadillac SUV or something like that.  I'm thinking, 'who is this douche bag'.  Bright colored suit, sun glasses... looked a real Guideo.  Then he took off his glasses and I realized it was him.  This was I guess 1999 season.

In the distance was there a soundtrack playing with the lyrics "If there's a problem, yo, I'll solve it......"?

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14 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I don't even like Gardenhire, FWIW.

But the team is ****.

47-114.  What would a good manager have done with this team?

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7 minutes ago, Casimir said:

47-114.  What would a good manager have done with this team?

tied it up in a bag and dropped it off the Ambassador Bridge?

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58 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

tied it up in a bag and dropped it off the Ambassador Bridge?

My answer would'of been to'of given up, but sure, that works, too.

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

How many games do you think Gardenhire cost the Tigers this season?

Based on their Pythagorean W/L record, 2. 

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10 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Based on their Pythagorean W/L record, 2. 

So you're saying he turned a 49-112 team into a 47-114 team?

The Brewers were a plus 8, which I am guessing you would give credit for that to Craig Counsell.  And if we were to add Counsell's work to the Tigers, they might have been 57-104 on the season rather than 49-112?  So, in other words, the Tigers would still have had an awful 2019 season with any other manager at the helm?

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2 minutes ago, Casimir said:

So you're saying he turned a 49-112 team into a 47-114 team?

The Brewers were a plus 8, which I am guessing you would give credit for that to Craig Counsell.  And if we were to add Counsell's work to the Tigers, they might have been 57-104 on the season rather than 49-112?  So, in other words, the Tigers would still have had an awful 2019 season with any other manager at the helm?

Yes, the Tigers would have an awful record regardless who their manager was.  So why have Gardenhire over anyone else?  What is unique about Gardenhire?  

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5 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Yes, the Tigers would have an awful record regardless who their manager was.  So why have Gardenhire over anyone else?  What is unique about Gardenhire?  

This leads to the question, why not Gardenhire, if it makes no difference?

That's rhetorical. You don't have to answer that.

But answer this, if you're inclined: what kind of manager would you prefer over Gardenhire? What attributes does your ideal candidate have that Gardenhire does not, and what attributes does he not have that you don't like in Gardenhire.

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21 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Yes, the Tigers would have an awful record regardless who their manager was.  So why have Gardenhire over anyone else?  What is unique about Gardenhire?  

as I answered previously.... because slavery is illegal.

Who else you gonna get?  As chuck said, Why not.  

I don't think a managing 'prospect' wants this job.   

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4 minutes ago, chasfh said:

This leads to the question, why not Gardenhire, if it makes no difference?

That's rhetorical. You don't have to answer that.

But answer this, if you're inclined: what kind of manager would you prefer over Gardenhire? What attributes does your ideal candidate have that Gardenhire does not, and what attributes does he not have that you don't like in Gardenhire.

For a rebuilding team I would use a rookie manager, someone with little experience that will learn and grow alongside rookie players.  There is no expectations with a rookie manager and there is no expectations with a rebuilding team.  Think Trammell and 2003.  Trammell lasted 2 more years after that year.  A rookie manager would not be afraid to try new things as he is learning.  Kapler did a lot of unorthodox things in Philly and even though he is now fired as most of them didn't work out, it would not have mattered much in a rebuilding team. 

Gardy leaned too much on tradition.  He had to have a 5-man rotation.  He had to have experienced starting pitchers, hence the acquisitions of Ross, Moore, and Jackson.  He wouldn't move Zimmermann to the bullpen even though that's where he belonged.  He had to have a 7th inning man, an 8th inning man, and a closer even though a rebuilding team can be a lot more flexible.  He "experimented" with the opener only because he wanted to limit Norris' innings, and even then it was Norris 3 innings and then VerHagen 3 innings.  That's not really innovative.  

And I know a lot of it is because of Avila, and I'm no fan of him either.  Gardy can only work with the guys that Avila gives him and his 10-year behind advanced analytics data.  Gardy was all talk and little action.  He can have 5 difference centerfielders this week, but keep the same 8th inning guy.  He thinks this is forward thinking because Avila's front office tells him it is.  This team needs a complete overhaul of the front office and manager/coaches.  

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4 minutes ago, Oblong said:

as I answered previously.... because slavery is illegal.

Who else you gonna get?  As chuck said, Why not.  

I don't think a managing 'prospect' wants this job.   

And as I said before, Gardy's talent is being wasted on a rebuilding team.  He should be managing the Cubs, Mets, or Dodgers right now.  

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3 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

For a rebuilding team I would use a rookie manager, someone with little experience that will learn and grow alongside rookie players.  There is no expectations with a rookie manager and there is no expectations with a rebuilding team.  Think Trammell and 2003.  Trammell lasted 2 more years after that year.  A rookie manager would not be afraid to try new things as he is learning.  Kapler did a lot of unorthodox things in Philly and even though he is now fired as most of them didn't work out, it would not have mattered much in a rebuilding team. 

Gardy leaned too much on tradition.  He had to have a 5-man rotation.  He had to have experienced starting pitchers, hence the acquisitions of Ross, Moore, and Jackson.  He wouldn't move Zimmermann to the bullpen even though that's where he belonged.  He had to have a 7th inning man, an 8th inning man, and a closer even though a rebuilding team can be a lot more flexible.  He "experimented" with the opener only because he wanted to limit Norris' innings, and even then it was Norris 3 innings and then VerHagen 3 innings.  That's not really innovative.  

And I know a lot of it is because of Avila, and I'm no fan of him either.  Gardy can only work with the guys that Avila gives him and his 10-year behind advanced analytics data.  Gardy was all talk and little action.  He can have 5 difference centerfielders this week, but keep the same 8th inning guy.  He thinks this is forward thinking because Avila's front office tells him it is.  This team needs a complete overhaul of the front office and manager/coaches.  

What would you have done with the starting pitchers?

If "there is no expectations with a rebuilding team", why are you critical of Gardenhire?

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1 minute ago, Casimir said:

What would you have done with the starting pitchers?

If "there is no expectations with a rebuilding team", why are you critical of Gardenhire?

Because Gardy promised one thing when he was hired, improved fundamentals.  The fundamentals did not improved.  He did not deliver on his promise, so he should be fired.  

In actuality he never should have be hired.  And no, I don't think we should keep him just because he under contract.  The Angels fired Ausmus with 2 years left on his contract because they did not like the way he was managing.  I do not like the way Gardy is managing, so I want him gone.  I know, I know, I have no control.  If Avila likes Gardy, then that is all that matters.  It doesn't matter what I think.  Just because Avila likes Gardy, doesn't mean I have to.  I want both Avila and Gardy gone.  

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27 minutes ago, bobrob2004 said:

Because Gardy promised one thing when he was hired, improved fundamentals.  The fundamentals did not improved.  He did not deliver on his promise, so he should be fired.  

In actuality he never should have be hired.  And no, I don't think we should keep him just because he under contract.  The Angels fired Ausmus with 2 years left on his contract because they did not like the way he was managing.  I do not like the way Gardy is managing, so I want him gone.  I know, I know, I have no control.  If Avila likes Gardy, then that is all that matters.  It doesn't matter what I think.  Just because Avila likes Gardy, doesn't mean I have to.  I want both Avila and Gardy gone.  

But what would you have done with the starting pitchers?

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17 minutes ago, Casimir said:

But what would you have done with the starting pitchers?

I would have brought up some of those highly touted prospects, even if it were for a game or two.  As a fan, would I rather watch another one of Zimmermann's 4-inning, 6-run games or watch future all-star Casey Mize pitch a game?  Sometimes you need to pander to the fans, even if it's just for a handful of games.  Or do they really want me to get excited about Tyler Alexander and Gregory Soto?  Maybe they are the real future of the Tigers franchise even though none of the top 100 prospect rankings recognize them?  

And no, I don't buy into the fact that having Casey Mize pitch 2 ML games is going to "ruin" his development.  

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Jordan Zimmermann should have been pitching out of the bullpen for the majority of the year.  I would have liked to see Joe Jimenez be an opener for a few games.  Having Jimenez pitch the first inning and Zimmermann pitching the next 4 would not have changed the outcome of the game at all, but it would have been a lot more enjoyable watching that as a fan.  And I would be a lot more open about Gardenhire turning into an innovator.  

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