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The 2020 Presidential Race

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I can use myself as an example.   I am a Never Trump Republican that moved into a Never This Republican Party after the entire GOP cowered to Trump and allowed this to continue when it became obvious to all rational people the type of corruption we were witnessing in the office.    

The party needs to be burned to the ground and be rebuilt again.  Frankly, it may be painful but 4 years of far left progressive rule may be what the Republicans need to return to a party that is defined by fiscal policy and smaller government instead of being dominated by religious right and nationalist talking points. 

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25 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

I can use myself as an example.   I am a Never Trump Republican that moved into a Never This Republican Party after the entire GOP cowered to Trump and allowed this to continue when it became obvious to all rational people the type of corruption we were witnessing in the office.    

The party needs to be burned to the ground and be rebuilt again.  Frankly, it may be painful but 4 years of far left progressive rule may be what the Republicans need to return to a party that is defined by fiscal policy and smaller government instead of being dominated by religious right and nationalist talking points. 

and a point I always come back to is that conservatism can only be as good as the progressivism that is its foil. It is exactly the rejuvenation of Democratic progressivism that can give the GOP some purpose in life other than appeals to business tax cuts and racism. Democratic progressivism has been dead since Bill Clinton, and  I believe that has played no small part in the current GOP's intellectual emptiness.

e.g. There is a conservative viewpoint that there is a difference between statues of Jefferson Davis and George Washington, but when nobody was interested in tearing down any statues, it had no point.

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I believe the pandemic and BLM stuff both will contribute to a national shifting left.  Whatever becomes of the new GOP could be what Bill Clinton was in 1992.  We've been exposed as having too large of a margin between groups and not enough support/safety nets.  

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1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

That's 6 years down the road. Biden probably isn't even president by then. A lot of boomers will have died by then and a younger generation will be voting not to mention more immigration. 

Why would you want boomers to die?  Biden is currently leading the 65+ group.  Besides, in 2016 the oldest boomer was 70 and more than half were female, so if you meant to say Old White Men as the reason for Trump's success, "boomer" isn't even close as a synonym.

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1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

Exactly.

To the extent that there's anyone worth saving in that chamber, it's Romney and Murkowski, in part because they actually *are* what Collins purports to be.

romney and murkowski wouldnt win the republican nomination in most states.

its not likely that you can "save" any of them because the republican electorate has moved so far to the right and become so trumpish that normal politicians with moderate records are going to lose.

the lincoln project is just piling on at this point.  and the practical effect of it will be to continue the party's move to the right and to more "trumpish" positions.

imo, the more prudent thing for republicans to do would be to try to save the politicians who have shown themselves to be pliable (like collins).  they might not like the alternative.

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Just now, Buddha said:

romney and murkowski wouldnt win the republican nomination in most states.

its not likely that you can "save" any of them because the republican electorate has moved so far to the right and become so trumpish that normal politicians with moderate records are going to lose.

the lincoln project is just piling on at this point.  and the practical effect of it will be to continue the party's move to the right and to more "trumpish" positions.

imo, the more prudent thing for republicans to do would be to try to save the politicians who have shown themselves to be pliable (like collins).  they might not like the alternative.

I suspect the response you'll get is that Susan Collins plays "pliable" on the Sunday Shows... when it really counts, she's fallen short. So much so that she's a national punchline (even amongst the Bulwark crowd).

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Buddha, It won't be that easy to find another Trump.  His fans actually like him and they voted in large numbers to elect him.  Trump's persona is as important to is election success as his fake ideology.     

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13 minutes ago, Buddha said:

romney and murkowski wouldnt win the republican nomination in most states.

its not likely that you can "save" any of them because the republican electorate has moved so far to the right and become so trumpish that normal politicians with moderate records are going to lose.

the lincoln project is just piling on at this point.  and the practical effect of it will be to continue the party's move to the right and to more "trumpish" positions.

imo, the more prudent thing for republicans to do would be to try to save the politicians who have shown themselves to be pliable (like collins).  they might not like the alternative.

Romney did win the nomination in many states. Just like things changed from 2012 to 2016, they can change from 2020 to 2024 especially if Trump is handed a humiliating defeat. 

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12 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Romney did win the nomination in many states. Just like things changed from 2012 to 2016, they can change from 2020 to 2024 especially if Trump is handed a humiliating defeat. 

i think that's wishful thinking.

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14 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Buddha, It won't be that easy to find another Trump.  His fans actually like him and they voted in large numbers to elect him.  Trump's persona is as important to is election success as his fake ideology.     

do you think the republican party will return to what it was pre-trump?  that all those trump voters will start voting for paul ryan types again?

i dont.

i think once the democrats completely take over and start enacting their agenda, the backlash from the republican party's "white working class supporters" will be even greater.  and youre just as likely to see a bigger divide between the parties as the less educated voter moves to the republican party and the more educated voter continues to migrate to the democrats.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i think that's wishful thinking.

I think Republicans will learn their lesson. They could've prevented Trump in the first place. They could have done what the Democrats did and consolidate behind a nominee instead of splitting votes with each other. People are also enamored with Trump the showman. Is another carnival barker going to have the same appeal? Maybe Junior or Tucker? 

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

I think Republicans will learn their lesson. They could've prevented Trump in the first place. They could have done what the Democrats did and consolidate behind a nominee instead of splitting votes with each other. People are also enamored with Trump the showman. Is another carnival barker going to have the same appeal? Maybe Junior or Tucker? 

yes.  they will have that appeal, imo.

look at nikki haley.  she's going full trump.  why?  cause she sees where the party is headed.

ted cruz.  tom cotton too.  you try to recreate the agenda items that got trump elected in the primary without the incompetence that will get him beaten in november.

the first issue for any republican presidential candidate will be to win the primary and that will be done by appealing to the huge base of trump fanatics in the party.

look, long term i think the republican party will have to change.  but in the short term, in order to win, these candidates will need to appeal to their base.  and their base is trump supporters.

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what are the issues that drive republican voters?

anti-china

anti-immigrant

anti-"pc"

what else?  do tax cuts really move the needle anymore?

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23 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

Buddha, It won't be that easy to find another Trump.  His fans actually like him and they voted in large numbers to elect him.  Trump's persona is as important to is election success as his fake ideology.     

Trump is the greatest con man in the world.  It’s been going on for 40 years and has earned him billions of dollars and the most coveted job in the world.   I’m not sure we will ever see a long con like this one ever again.   

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13 minutes ago, Buddha said:

what are the issues that drive republican voters?

anti-china

anti-immigrant

anti-"pc"

what else?  do tax cuts really move the needle anymore?

abortion

guns

gay marriage

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3 minutes ago, apabruce said:

abortion

guns

gay marriage

Person

woman

man

camera

tv

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Just now, Shelton said:

Person

woman

man

camera

tv

all out of likes

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8 minutes ago, apabruce said:

abortion

guns

gay marriage

i would change "gay marriage" to "religious freedom" (their words, not mine).

 

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Interesting data.... Biden does better in a lot of areas than I would expect.

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4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Interesting data.... Biden does better in a lot of areas than I would expect.

Remember when a certain someone was talking about all of Trump's donations from Washington? Biden has Trump beat by 28,000 donors in Washington.

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35 minutes ago, Buddha said:

look at nikki haley.  she's going full trump.  why?  cause she sees where the party is headed.

Good God Almighty.... you ain't lyin

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1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Good God Almighty.... you ain't lyin

she's been a real disappointment.  i had high hopes for her.

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2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Good God Almighty.... you ain't lyin

dead to me

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39 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Trump is the greatest con man in the world.  It’s been going on for 40 years and has earned him billions of dollars and the most coveted job in the world.   I’m not sure we will ever see a long con like this one ever again.   

Correct, except I am not convinced he has billions.   

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