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The 2020 Presidential Race

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8 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Yeah, Bill Kristol is an awful person himself. Never, ever met a trillion dollar, destructive war he didn't like, unless of course he was ever called to put on a uniform and fight. Then I am certain, like a pumpkin in Cinderella, he would turn into Cindy Sheehan overnight and start listening to Peter, Paul, and Mary on loop.

If there were such a thing as a Mt. Rushmore for chicken hawks, he would be first ballot.

He's also one of those guys who sit on those shows with that little smirk on is face who makes you want to just smack him upside the grill.  Why they even have him on is a mystery to me, other than the fact that the people behind the war for profit industry need to keep pushing the war narrative, and he's the warmongering professor they all love.

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10 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The enemy of my enemy...

Well... sorta.   I'm not so sure about Walsh.  I mean, I like some of his tweets, but if he turns around and runs for Congress and takes a Dem seat, I'm not so sure.

Kristol on the other hand is just a talking head so even if the enemy of my enemy thing falls through, the repercussions aren't as bad.

 

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18 minutes ago, screwball said:

If there were such a thing as a Mt. Rushmore for chicken hawks, he would be first ballot.

Hear! Hear!

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I see the goal of Walsh not to actually become President, or even the nominee, it's to hurt Trump's chances.  That I can get behind.

 

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2 minutes ago, Oblong said:

I see the goal of Walsh not to actually become President, or even the nominee, it's to hurt Trump's chances.  That I can get behind.

 

Given Walsh's dubious past with child support, birtherism, and flirtation with racism, I tend to think he's running more for publicity benefits.  His stance on birtherism should give him some street cred with Trumpers though.

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Just now, Euphdude said:

Given Walsh's dubious past with child support, birtherism, and flirtation with racism, I tend to think he's running more for publicity benefits.  His stance on birtherism should give him some street cred with Trumpers though.

I walked by the cafeteria Foxnews screens and saw his face.  I couldn't tell how they were depicting his run.  

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Just now, Euphdude said:

Given Walsh's dubious past with child support, birtherism, and flirtation with racism, I tend to think he's running more for publicity benefits.  His stance on birtherism should give him some street cred with Trumpers though.

To be honest, he seems to be pretty earnest in disavowing a lot of the worst elements of his past.   I listen to all of the sunday shows on podcast, and I believe he was on 2 of them yesterday.   I did not hear him confronted about the child support, but on the rest of the stuff he seemed genuinely remorseful, and basically volunteered to accept a big responsibility in fostering a political culture that contributed to Trump.  In fact, he basically outright said he helped create Trump and was sorry.

I found it to be pretty genuine, but he's still a Republican.

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10 minutes ago, pfife said:

To be honest, he seems to be pretty earnest in disavowing a lot of the worst elements of his past.   I listen to all of the sunday shows on podcast, and I believe he was on 2 of them yesterday.   I did not hear him confronted about the child support, but on the rest of the stuff he seemed genuinely remorseful, and basically volunteered to accept a big responsibility in fostering a political culture that contributed to Trump.  In fact, he basically outright said he helped create Trump and was sorry.

I found it to be pretty genuine, but he's still a Republican.

I was tuned out of politics most of the weekend so I missed Walsh's Sunday poli-show appearances.  I will give him kudos for apologizing for the birtherism / Obama is a Muslim conspiracy theories he helped to promote.  A byproduct of his remorse will be the loss of the street cred with Trumpers I mentioned previously.

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40 minutes ago, pfife said:

Well... sorta.   I'm not so sure about Walsh.  I mean, I like some of his tweets, but if he turns around and runs for Congress and takes a Dem seat, I'm not so sure.

There's a zero percent chance that Walsh could win a Congressional seat in the North/Northwest Suburbs of Chicago in the Trump era. Or likely in the immediate aftermath. The brand is just too damaged in the suburbs, and I doubt a kamikaze Presidential run is gonna change that.

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1 hour ago, pfife said:

I've never seen a more wrong pundit than Kristol over the years, which makes me freaked out that he and I agree on some stuff right now.

Just consider it a coincidence. 

Not to mention that ideas should be formulated on the basis of discerning facts, not "well, if warmonger Bill Kristol believes it, it must be false because reasons"

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Just now, mtutiger said:

Just consider it a coincidence. 

Not to mention that ideas should be formulated on the basis of discerning facts, not "well, if warmonger Bill Kristol believes, it must be false"

Kristol's days as a influencial voice in conservative politics are over.  He's using his fumes to get appearances on whatever shows will have him.

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Also with Kristol you have to focus on what did you disagree with him on?  Was it a single issue, albeit a very big one?

You can segregate.

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36 minutes ago, pfife said:

To be honest, he seems to be pretty earnest in disavowing a lot of the worst elements of his past.   I listen to all of the sunday shows on podcast, and I believe he was on 2 of them yesterday.   I did not hear him confronted about the child support, but on the rest of the stuff he seemed genuinely remorseful, and basically volunteered to accept a big responsibility in fostering a political culture that contributed to Trump.  In fact, he basically outright said he helped create Trump and was sorry.

I found it to be pretty genuine, but he's still a Republican.

This is basically where I'm at after watching him on This Week. There may be some aspect of it that is self-interested, but I think the run comes with a lot of downsides (ie. the dredging up of all his tweets / personal issues, with which he has a TON of problematic tweets / issues; the hatred he will get from Trump's base; the loss of his radio show) that could potentially outweigh any positives that come from it.

I still don't like the guy.... I spent time in his district while he was Congressman and he was an absolute jack*** at the time. But I don't see the self-interest upside in this run. Maybe I'm missing something.

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1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

I still don't like the guy.... I spent time in his district while he was Congressman and he was an absolute jack*** at the time. But I don't see the self-interest upside in this run. Maybe I'm missing something.

If Walsh represents a story of redemption for helping to cultivate the political environment we are in today, there might be some interesting outcomes from his presence in a GOP primary challenge.  So far my sources for Trumper opinions are trashing Walsh as a nobody and a publicity seeker.

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Just now, Euphdude said:

So far my sources for Trumper opinions are trashing Walsh as a nobody and a publicity seeker.

Least surprising thing I've heard all day.

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It's rich AF hearing Trumpers call other people publicity seekers.  How f'ing oblivious do you have to be to make such a statement?

 

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3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Least surprising thing I've heard all day.

Same.  The less Trumpers talk about Walsh, the better for their cause.   

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1 minute ago, pfife said:

It's rich AF hearing Trumpers call other people publicity seekers.  How f'ing oblivious do you have to be to make such a statement?

 

Hyprocrisy and double-standards are a given with Trumpers.  You'll read arguments from them that completely contradict what they were saying a few years ago.  It's a fascinating social experiment observation.

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What politician is not a publicity seeker?  If you don't seek publicity, you'll never get elected.

Trump is probably the biggest publicity seeker in US history.  He will say anything and do anything to get it and he's been that way his entire life.     

 

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3 hours ago, Oblong said:

I see the goal of Walsh not to actually become President, or even the nominee, it's to hurt Trump's chances.  That I can get behind.

 

With any politician, I can't rule out that there isn't an end game result he's looking for, even if it's not in the near future.  If Trump wins the nomination, but loses the election, I see the republican party making a major u-turn on Trump.  Those that had a voice against Trump beforehand will reap the biggest benefit.  

That said, if the goal is simply to fall on a sword to hurt Trump's chances, i'll take that too.

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10 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

With any politician, I can't rule out that there isn't an end game result he's looking for, even if it's not in the near future.  If Trump wins the nomination, but loses the election, I see the republican party making a major u-turn on Trump.  Those that had a voice against Trump beforehand will reap the biggest benefit.  

That said, if the goal is simply to fall on a sword to hurt Trump's chances, i'll take that too.

I see the GOP attempting to make a major-turn if Trump loses.  I think the voters the party needs is too entrenched in nationalist populism for classic Republicans to regain control the reins and win elections.

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Sort of an outlier poll with other national polling, but also in keeping with the idea that the race is tightening....

 

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26 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

With any politician, I can't rule out that there isn't an end game result he's looking for, even if it's not in the near future.  If Trump wins the nomination, but loses the election, I see the republican party making a major u-turn on Trump.  Those that had a voice against Trump beforehand will reap the biggest benefit.  

That said, if the goal is simply to fall on a sword to hurt Trump's chances, i'll take that too.

To the extent that there would be an upside in him running, this is probably it. But as a bet, it's a moonshot.

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Trump isn't going to just go away if he loses in 2020. He'll be tweeting and hosting rallies. I put it at 50/50 odds he would make another run in 2024. Trumpers will still be strong if he loses.

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Just now, Motown Bombers said:

Trump isn't going to just go away if he loses in 2020. He'll be tweeting and hosting rallies. I put it at 50/50 odds he would make another run in 2024. Trumpers will still be strong if he loses.

Win or lose, Trump will dominate the GOP until he dies, afterwhich Trump Jr. will carry the mantle.  The GOP is going to be the Trump Party for a long time to come.

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