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The 2020 Presidential Race

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2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I bet the Sarah Palin VP nod impacted that election some.

it made people see how impulsive McCain was or that he had to shore up his support from the right.

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3 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

 

Wasn't even always a truism here. When TV news started out, it was considered a public service obligation for the networks, and of course in those days broadcast licences had a public service requirement. Those early news divisions at CBS/NBC/ABC were quasi independent from the profit making part of the business.

 I suppose that is almost a throw back to clear channel AM radio in that interregnum between when FM had taken the music market but before  the  right wing schlock politicos took over. Call it the J.P. McCarthy era if you like.

The good old days before they killed the Fairness Doctrine and then lifted restrictions on the number of stations in a market an owner was allowed. 
 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

The impact of the profit motive on news media was a major theme of Citizen Kane, which was released over 80 years ago, so I'd suggest it has been a topic worthy of discussion (i.e. an actual issue / concern) at least that long.

The Spanish-American war was over 120 years ago.

right. But over historical time good Newspapers didn't really have all that much trouble maintaining their place against the 'yellow' press. I think the ability of serious news to survive or hold itself apart in the video medium has been less successful - at least so far. It's only really been one generation give or take, so I suppose it's possible a new form may appear either in broadcast or online that may be able to re-establish the kind of credibility we saw at the networks 40 years ago. 

But I also think this plays back to forcing reform in US corporate structure. It's hard to deny that Fox news would not be as irresponsible as it is if that irresponsibility were costing the Murdoch's their profits. The 1st amendment may guarantee you the right to lie, but it does not have to guarantee you a system that makes it easy to make money doing it.

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55 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

it made people see how impulsive McCain was or that he had to shore up his support from the right.

Sarah Palin was just ahead of her time. Her loonspudery would fit right in today. 

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1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I bet the Sarah Palin VP nod impacted that election some.

It did for me. There was nothing John McCain could have done after that choice to make me take him seriously again.

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Whitmer would be a bad choice I think....  he doesn't give her anything he doesn't already have....

 

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1 minute ago, Oblong said:

Whitmer would be a bad choice I think....  he doesn't give her anything he doesn't already have....

 

She lacks experience and it wouldn't look good bailing on the state after two years and two public health crisis going on.

I look for her in 2024 but not for president. Stabenow will be mid 70's when she's up for reelection in 2024. Does she decide to retire? If so Whitmer should be a front runner.

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Of course, rocking a Tiger's cap always gives news the ultimate credibility.

agreed.  Even that com-simp leftie Michael Moore gets my attention when he's rocking the D.  

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This observation from Austrian or German reporter/commentator  Thomas Theiner

I seriously believe they think they are going to run Don Jr. or Ivanka in 2024

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13 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Whitmer would be a bad choice I think....  he doesn't give her anything he doesn't already have....

 

You know, I would have voted for my dog before Bill Schuette so I really didn't even pay much attention to whether Whitmer ran a good campaign. I guess she won so it couldn't have been too bad.

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12 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

You know, I would have voted for my dog before Bill Schuette so I really didn't even pay much attention to whether Whitmer ran a good campaign. I guess she won so it couldn't have been too bad.

Whitmer's status outside the state is very high.  She appears to be doing a good job on the national shows she appears on.  

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36 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

She lacks experience and it wouldn't look good bailing on the state after two years and two public health crisis going on.

I look for her in 2024 but not for president. Stabenow will be mid 70's when she's up for reelection in 2024. Does she decide to retire? If so Whitmer should be a front runner.

17 as a legislator with time in both  houses  and 4 as governor actually ain't bad compared to any of the other competition. I don't think there is much to choose experience wise between Whitmer, Warren and Klobuchar in term of pure governing process experience. The two Senators have been in Wash but don't have executive management experience. None of the three have  foreign policy chops - neither Klobuchar or Warren have FP committee assignments. OTOH Harris has been on Homeland security and Intel.

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44 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

This observation from Austrian or German reporter/commentator  Thomas Theiner

I seriously believe they think they are going to run Don Jr. or Ivanka in 2024

I hope they run Jr.  He's dumber than his dad and without the charisma.  

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53 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Whitmer's status outside the state is very high.  She appears to be doing a good job on the national shows she appears on.  

She has pretty much followed DeWine and Cuomo, that by itself is not an insult.  She made a few high profile mistakes, not that it really cost Michigan, but would be exploited.  The complaint about federal money before she even requested it for example.  

The rest of the Covid response stuff she'll get hit on are the same things every other governor dealt with.  From a national standpoint, I don't see it hurting her.

I do agree that the VP generally doesn't help.  That said, a good candidate in a swing state, I know i'd be looking for that if I was running for POTUS.  Obviously i'm hoping for more of a centrist candidate and one ready to take over should Biden be unable to go 4 years.  Klobuchar is whom I'm rooting for.

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It is possible that McCain's team saw in Palin the future of the Republican Party:  the "angry" white working class. 

Obama had lost badly to Hillary in the primaries among white's without a college degree and Hispanics.  They may have thought Palin's "homespun" aggressive personality would continue the exodus of working class whites and allow Republicans to peel off enough votes in the "blue wall" to win.

Didn't work out that way.  But the way us uber educated moderates/Democrats see it - Palin is an obvious idiot and she's one step from the white house, lets go vote Obama - is not exactly how many Americans might see it.  Eight years later, the male version of Sarah Palin won the White House.

That's the theory at least.  I still think 2016 was a fluke.  But the fluke doesn't happen without the white working class seeing the Democrats as the "elites" who give away their jobs, want to take the guns, and don't give a **** about them.  Palin was seen by many as a way to tap into that.  

Fortunately, Obama was such a good candidate that he overcame it.  And four years later they ran the Monopoly Man and didn't even try that strategy.

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35 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I hope they run Jr.  He's dumber than his dad and without the charisma.  

After Trump, I no longer will root for the 'bad' candidate for opposing party.  I was excited that the dems were (likely) putting Hillary up a few years ago, just didn't see what the whole picture would look like at the time.

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8 minutes ago, Buddha said:

It is possible that McCain's team saw in Palin the future of the Republican Party:  the "angry" white working class. 

Obama had lost badly to Hillary in the primaries among white's without a college degree and Hispanics.  They may have thought Palin's "homespun" aggressive personality would continue the exodus of working class whites and allow Republicans to peel off enough votes in the "blue wall" to win.

Didn't work out that way.  But the way us uber educated moderates/Democrats see it - Palin is an obvious idiot and she's one step from the white house, lets go vote Obama - is not exactly how many Americans might see it.  Eight years later, the male version of Sarah Palin won the White House.

That's the theory at least.  I still think 2016 was a fluke.  But the fluke doesn't happen without the white working class seeing the Democrats as the "elites" who give away their jobs, want to take the guns, and don't give a **** about them.  Palin was seen by many as a way to tap into that.  

Fortunately, Obama was such a good candidate that he overcame it.  And four years later they ran the Monopoly Man and didn't even try that strategy.

I'll grant you all of that (2nd time in short order!) but even given that that was the target, the particular choice was still wildly irresponsible and I expected better than that from John McCain. The fact is that McCain did only outlive what would have been his two terms by a mere 2 yrs and he was fairly incapacitated for much of the last one. 

Trump is not anyone else's responsibility other than himself and the voters - and maybe Fox news - not the way Palin would have been McCain's.

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11 hours ago, ROMAD1 said:

it made people see how impulsive McCain was or that he had to shore up his support from the right.

*How devoid of principles McCain was.

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10 hours ago, Oblong said:

Whitmer would be a bad choice I think....  he doesn't give her anything he doesn't already have....

 

If Biden is worried about white women voting for him because of the sexual assault allegations, Whitmer and her personal story as a survivor in his corner could be a real difference maker.

But really, if Biden goes with Whitmer it will be because he believes she can deliver Michigan.

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3 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

*How devoid of principles McCain was.

This is probably a self-limiting position to take wrt McCain

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1 minute ago, ROMAD1 said:

This is probably a self-limiting position to take wrt McCain

You have McCain to thank for bringing the Tea Party to the forefront.

These were the people that gave Trump a platform for his presidency.

For as much as McCain hated Trump, he helped create him by courting those deplorables.

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