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The 2020 Presidential Race

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4 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

But that's not what's being proposed. A public option buy in is what is being proposed and if you have no income coming in, what good is a buy in. Throw a rock and you hit Windsor, if they can do it in Canada, so can we.

Yes the public option is designed for people who work, in theory medicaid would cover those with incomes as low as the unemployed, but how long do you have to have low income before you are eligible for medicare? Do you have to have a whole year's low income rate before you qualify? I've never gotten the impression that you could qualify for medicaid just because you lost you job.

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5 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Like mentioned before, Canada built it from the ground up. You cannot just overall the system in one four year team and cut 1.5 million jobs. Offer a public option that people can opt in and tax those who opt in above a certain income level similar to what Australia does. Let the market force the private insurance companies to either lower their rates or go out of business.

Another options is Bernie Sanders can introduce his Medicare for All plan. He is a senator after all. Let the senate vote on it.

yes this is key. The M4A people need to be talk less about their aspirations - which everyone already understands, and more about the nuts and bolts of a workable 10 -15 yr plan to get there.

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In-regards to what you do to all the unemployed people, I think Medicare-For-All goes hand-in-hand with a federal jobs guarantee. The same could be say about all the people that work in oil, natural gas, coal, or carbon-based energy industries who may lose jobs in  our transition to a green economy.

Investing in a federal jobs program can allow for new positions with the state to be created and new investments in the private sector. A modern day, more comprehensive version of FDR's WPA that puts people to work rebuilding our infrastructure, housing and greenspaces.

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

yes this is key. The M4A people need to be talk less about their aspirations - which everyone already understands, and more about the nuts and bolts of a workable 10 -15 yr plan to get there.

Yup. 

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10 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Dems moving convention to Aug 17.

Oh great, more time for Bernie Sanders to rail against the establishment and then give an endorsement like he's a North Korean hostage. 

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If Medicare for all is such a winner, then have Sanders get the bill on the senate floor and vote for it. Put the senators on record. 

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19 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

yes this is key. The M4A people need to be talk less about their aspirations - which everyone already understands, and more about the nuts and bolts of a workable 10 -15 yr plan to get there.

And yet the free market people still can't answer and defend the cruelty of the current system. Is it right that someone goes bankrupt and into financial ruin because they were diagnosed with cancer, MS, into an accident, or some other condition? Is it right that a corporation can profit off of the illness or injury of others? If you fundamentally believe those things are wrong than a single payer system is the only way to fully rectify that.

As far as the nuts and bolts go, I think a 5-10 year (probably closer to 10) phase in plan gets it done. You'll need to both phase in the  necessary tax rates on income, payroll, capital gains, wall street transactions tax, personal estates, and total wealth. No, we probably won't be paying tax rates that the Swedes or Danes pay, but yes, we will probably see a sharp spike in taxes for income earners across many tax brackets, middle America included. These increases will be offset by the cost of no more premiums, deductibles, copays, and for union workers, the benefit of focusing on wages in contract negotiations. Once you set the funding mechanisms in place you will be phasing people, likely by age brackets, off of their employment-based plan. I would guess age brackets of 5-10 years at a time, starting at 64 before people qualify for Medicare, and it phases it every year or every other year from there. 55-64, 45-54, 35-44, etc. Once your down to 18 you would add in all minors and children to the plan.

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6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

If Medicare for all is such a winner, then have Sanders get the bill on the senate floor and vote for it. Put the senators on record. 

Do you think McConnell would allow that? Representative Pramila Jayapal from Washington is trying to do just that in the House, but thus far they have kept the bill in Committee.

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8 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

And yet the free market people still can't answer and defend the cruelty of the current system.

Questioning how practical M4A is or the details of how M4A could realistically be implemented does not require one to be a defender of the current system.

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2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Do you think McConnell would allow that? Representative Pramila Jayapal from Washington is trying to do just that in the House, but thus far they have kept the bill in Committee.

No I don't so how do we think it's going to get passed if Sanders is president? 

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1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Questioning how practical it is or the details of M4A does not require one to be a defender of the current system.

I think it's adorable if Tater thinks I defend the current system and is a "free market person." I was a self proclaimed socialist before Bernie Bros made it chic. I'm also practical and know you can't just overall the system. As Tater pointed out, Bernie Sanders health care plan is DOA. Not sure the point of voting for idealogue who won't accomplish anything. 

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6 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Yes the public option is designed for people who work, in theory medicaid would cover those with incomes as low as the unemployed, but how long do you have to have low income before you are eligible for medicare? Do you have to have a whole year's low income rate before you qualify? I've never gotten the impression that you could qualify for medicaid just because you lost you job.

I believe, though I could be wrong, you can't simply lose a job and go into Medicaid. Qualification requirements vary by state and make it confusing and full of hoops to jump through. 

Joe Biden's healthcare plan is a better  version (or less deadly, depending on how you want to frame it) of what we currently have. His healthcare plan, as a Public Option Buy In, still leaves an estimated 10 million Americans without insurance and tens of millions more underinsured. As well, Biden's plan will enroll you premium free in a plan if you're at 138% of the poverty line or greater, but does not address if those people will still have copays, deductibles, or other surprise billing post treatment. Additionally, under the Biden plan, is the fact that you can go into financial ruin if you get seriously ill or into an accident. Biden nor his policy team have addressed how they plan to close the gap of uninsured and underinsured, nor how they plan to help people from facing financial ruin.

As I understand Medicaid requirements, your doomed first off if your state chose not to opt into the Medicaid expansion, which 15 states did not. Biden's plan says it will address this for some people, those at 138% the poverty line. It fails however to adress what happens to people during a financial shock or sudden job loss. It also fails to address what happens to lower income people who hover above the poverty line requirements but still couldn't afford to get healthcare coverage.

Under Medicare For All we know what happens in all situations and under all financial circumstances, people get covered at no cost other than taxes.

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When people talk about losing a million and a half jobs in the insurance industry, whose number is that?  Where did that come from?  And does it include people processing drug and dental claims?  Because if it does, it is utter nonsense.  Unless Sanders specifically said that drugs and dental were part of M4A.  Did he?  If he did, he is an idiot.  

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Personally, I think M4A is still not sufficient, if it's Medicare it's 80/20 coinsurance and **** that.

It's painfully obvious we need single payer now.  It's not obvious that wins elections.

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Here's what I have, in Ontario.  I don't pay for a doctor's visit, or any diagnostic tests, or anything that happens in a hospital (including drugs) except a semi-private room, that would cost me about $200 per night.  That's it.  There's no dentist, there's no eyeglasses, and for most people there's no drugs (yes there are drugs if you are over 65).

What's the most important is the doctor and the hospital.  It means that I won't have to sell my house if I have a heart attack.

So, was Bernie talking about anything beyond doctor and hospital?  If so, he screwed it up.

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14 minutes ago, Charles Liston said:

Here's what I have, in Ontario.  I don't pay for a doctor's visit, or any diagnostic tests, or anything that happens in a hospital (including drugs) except a semi-private room, that would cost me about $200 per night.  That's it.  There's no dentist, there's no eyeglasses, and for most people there's no drugs (yes there are drugs of you are over 65).

What's the most important is the doctor and the hospital.  It means that I won't have to sell my house of I have a heart attack.

So, was Bernie talking about anything beyond doctor and hospital?  If so, he screwed it up.

Medicare doesnt' cover dental currently, and Bernie did add it.  He also would routinely call out benefits for hearing aids.

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1 hour ago, pfife said:

Medicare doesnt' cover dental currently, and Bernie did add it.  He also would routinely call out benefits for hearing aids.

Then he's a screwup.  Health care was the best message, and Bernie was the worst pitchman.  Also, he deliberately calls it socialism, when it clearly is not.  Health care was introduced in Ontario in 1966 by a Conservative government.  It isn't "radical", it is just common sense centrist social policy.  To portray it as some sort of "movement" is to guarantee its failure.

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