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The 2020 Presidential Race

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30 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

 

I'm confused, is he complaining ballots weren't counted? Isn't that what he wanted? Isn't that what Trumpers were protesting for?

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Remember when I said I was still just a tiny bit worried something would happen?  I’m not anymore  

Rudy seals it. If that’s all that is left then it’s done.  He’s the cousin Oliver of political defense. 

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43 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

And the safety and fortune of millions were in limbo when the Pistons didn't shake hands

6 champoionships in 8 years and those whiny bitches in Chicago and their fans still whine about it

BAD BOYS FOREVER !   

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13 hours ago, Oblong said:

Remember when I said I was still just a tiny bit worried something would happen?  I’m not anymore  

Rudy seals it. If that’s all that is left then it’s done.  He’s the cousin Oliver of political defense. 

Yup, it was always just a show.

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3 hours ago, ROMAD1 said:

 

There is a part of me glad they are involved.  I feel like they are respectable, will work through the process and in the end when Biden is officially declared president, it'll lend some credibility.   But who am I kidding....

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It really is amazing how many people, not only hope, but expect Trump will still be President for the next four years.  I have facebook friends who are generally reasonable people who believe everything he is saying. It is not just extremists.  We are living in a country of two completely different realities.  I am not optimistic we will become united again any time soon.  

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2 hours ago, tiger337 said:

It really is amazing how many people, not only hope, but expect Trump will still be President for the next four years.  I have facebook friends who are generally reasonable people who believe everything he is saying. It is not just extremists.  We are living in a country of two completely different realities.  I am not optimistic we will become united again any time soon.  

Most of my friends from high school and college believe Trump's  BS. I'm baffled and also interested in looking at what social dynamics might be involved

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2 hours ago, leflore said:

Most of my friends from high school and college believe Trump's  BS. I'm baffled and also interested in looking at what social dynamics might be involved

I also wonder whether it's actually believing the propoganda (ie. all the conspiracy theories about voting fraud that appear false), or just going with it to backfill an explanation for why Trump would lose.

Speaking with my old man over the weekend, he was taken with the conspiracies (not hugely surprising to me), but not sure whether, deep down, he really believes it.

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Tea Pain had a good thread on why Trump appeals to so many evangelicals. It gives them cover to act out and be the assholes and bad people that their religion demands they not be.  They can use issues like abortion as a shield.  Like role playing.  

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If the Democrats want to win people back there is a way to do it..................Go after Wall Street - Go after Tax Cheats.  Go after corporations who aren't paying what they should............close their loopholes and punish them.  Do things that really help working and poor people and play dirty to do it.   You'd win working Republicans back over with that.   Not talking about it, but actually doing it.   Any President that does that is not going to get re-elected because of the attacks by the machine...........well Joe's probably not running in four years anyway.   Go for their balls.  People have been waiting and waiting for that.   We know Republicans won't do it, but Democrats haven't really taken advantage of being the opposite.    You wont win over the racist Republicans, but you'd win more Senate elections by cracking down on the cheats instead of just mentioning it.  Talk isn't good enough.    The worldwide banking fraucd back in the late 2000s that put the world in a recession........Iceland threw their bankers in jail. 

 

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1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

If the Democrats want to win people back there is a way to do it..................Go after Wall Street - Go after Tax Cheats.  Go after corporations who aren't paying what they should............close their loopholes and punish them.  Do things that really help working and poor people and play dirty to do it.   You'd win working Republicans back over with that.   Not talking about it, but actually doing it.   Any President that does that is not going to get re-elected because of the attacks by the machine...........well Joe's probably not running in four years anyway.   Go for their balls.  People have been waiting and waiting for that.   We know Republicans won't do it, but Democrats haven't really taken advantage of being the opposite.    You wont win over the racist Republicans, but you'd win more Senate elections by cracking down on the cheats instead of just mentioning it.  Talk isn't good enough.    The worldwide banking fraucd back in the late 2000s that put the world in a recession........Iceland threw their bankers in jail. 

We can't do that though because our candidates and the party itself, sans Bernie and the progressive wing, have become so hooked on corporate donor money they wouldn't know what to do without the corporate cash.

And what you're talking about, we had the chance to do this during the Great Derivatives Recession. We had the chance to bailout homeowners, enact a federal works program, and stimulate the economy with a trillion in cash and liquidity. We could have allowed AIG, BoA, Citi Group, Countrywide, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, etc. to fail and then secured their assets and split them into smaller, reorganized entities and/or sold their assets off to other financial institutions, regional banks and credit unions. We could have banned naked short selling in the market, banned CDO's/synthetic CDO's, banned Credit Default Swaps, etc. We could have enacted a massive, near trillion dollar federal works program akin to FDR's public works program during the Great Depression and kept millions of Americans employed and spending money, instead of out of work and hopeless.

We instead told working Americans to kick rocks and eat rats if you have to so we could bailout Wall Street under the guise of "the entire economy would collapse." We passed Dodd-Frank which did little to mitigate the derivatives risk because the derivatives market is larger now than before the crash. We passed a stimulus bill that had far fewer "shovel ready projects" than was needed and was as much tax cut focused as it was employment and stimulus focused. In reality, the entire economy did collapse and working Americans lost everything, including 401ks/investments/savings, and their homes. I'll go to my grave believing if homeowners had been bailed out and kept in their homes and people had been employed during the Great Derivatives Recession, the mess we've been in this past decade wouldn't be nearly as bad.

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16 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

We can't do that though because our candidates and the party itself, sans Bernie and the progressive wing, have become so hooked on corporate donor money they wouldn't know what to do without the corporate cash.

And what you're talking about, we had the chance to do this during the Great Derivatives Recession. We had the chance to bailout homeowners, enact a federal works program, and stimulate the economy with a trillion in cash and liquidity. We could have allowed AIG, BoA, Citi Group, Countrywide, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, etc. to fail and then secured their assets and split them into smaller, reorganized entities and/or sold their assets off to other financial institutions, regional banks and credit unions. We could have banned naked short selling in the market, banned CDO's/synthetic CDO's, banned Credit Default Swaps, etc. We could have enacted a massive, near trillion dollar federal works program akin to FDR's public works program during the Great Depression and kept millions of Americans employed and spending money, instead of out of work and hopeless.

We instead told working Americans to kick rocks and eat rats if you have to so we could bailout Wall Street under the guise of "the entire economy would collapse." We passed Dodd-Frank which did little to mitigate the derivatives risk because the derivatives market is larger now than before the crash. We passed a stimulus bill that had far fewer "shovel ready projects" than was needed and was as much tax cut focused as it was employment and stimulus focused. In reality, the entire economy did collapse and working Americans lost everything, including 401ks/investments/savings, and their homes. I'll go to my grave believing if homeowners had been bailed out and kept in their homes and people had been employed during the Great Derivatives Recession, the mess we've been in this past decade wouldn't be nearly as bad.

Odd how we wanted all those banks to fail that employ thousands of middle class people and yet bailouts of wealthy corporations are celebrated like GM and Chrysler. 

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As Tater said, the dems ( either party for that matter ) can only do economic reform if they can do one of two things - reduce campaign expenses - or build an effective campaign funding machine from upper middle class professional suburbanites who could afford to fund campaigns but have never been that active in that direction.

 

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3 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

We can't do that though because our candidates and the party itself, sans Bernie and the progressive wing, have become so hooked on corporate donor money they wouldn't know what to do without the corporate cash.

And what you're talking about, we had the chance to do this during the Great Derivatives Recession. We had the chance to bailout homeowners, enact a federal works program, and stimulate the economy with a trillion in cash and liquidity. We could have allowed AIG, BoA, Citi Group, Countrywide, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Morgan Stanley, etc. to fail and then secured their assets and split them into smaller, reorganized entities and/or sold their assets off to other financial institutions, regional banks and credit unions. We could have banned naked short selling in the market, banned CDO's/synthetic CDO's, banned Credit Default Swaps, etc. We could have enacted a massive, near trillion dollar federal works program akin to FDR's public works program during the Great Depression and kept millions of Americans employed and spending money, instead of out of work and hopeless.

We instead told working Americans to kick rocks and eat rats if you have to so we could bailout Wall Street under the guise of "the entire economy would collapse." We passed Dodd-Frank which did little to mitigate the derivatives risk because the derivatives market is larger now than before the crash. We passed a stimulus bill that had far fewer "shovel ready projects" than was needed and was as much tax cut focused as it was employment and stimulus focused. In reality, the entire economy did collapse and working Americans lost everything, including 401ks/investments/savings, and their homes. I'll go to my grave believing if homeowners had been bailed out and kept in their homes and people had been employed during the Great Derivatives Recession, the mess we've been in this past decade wouldn't be nearly as bad.

My philosophy is if you give the money to the people they can pay their bills and rent and mortgages and actually BUY THINGS ! - and the banks and corporations get theirs on the back end.  .    Instead the people just got it UP the back end.    If you give people a livable minimum wage they can spend their money on things corporate America provide and produce  - and then the people don't need to take nearly as much federal assistance.    But why do that?  There is a lot of power in keeping people on the dole, right?    Mitch McConnell will do everything in his power to make sure people don't get jobs over the next 2-4 years and he'll probably brag about it and stand there laughing.                 The scariest part about Trumpism, is the next authoritarian that comes along (maybe in 4 or 8 years) is not going to be dumb like Trump.  They aren't going to be easily baited into saying stupid things like Trump.   They'll be much more stealth about it and that's when the REAL trouble happens.  

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