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The 2020 Presidential Race

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59 minutes ago, smr-nj said:

As my original post said - “some” calls. Not all. And the staff that would be on this team I’m fairly certain would be experienced and know when they’d need additional help. And would dispatch it.  (It’s my belief that assignment to this squad is not going to be offered to a participant that doesn’t want to be there. I’m pretty sure I heard that POV on a radio news report)

Other anecdotal stories would also offer the point of view that it’s unfair to expect a police officer to know how to handle someone who may be suicidal. That lack of training (and a cop shouldn’t have to have a degree in social working / psychology) has led to an escalation where deadly force became necessary.

 I’m just saying I think it makes sense to see if first responders to some calls being a non-police entity can help in some situations.

In addition, this frees up the police to respond to the current escalation of violent crime. 

I find this trial run to be a win-win situation for the community, and law enforcement, and I pray for their success.

Note i'm not arguing against it and there is plenty of evidence that the way we deal with things lately aren't the best.  Leflore made some good points as well.  But I do think there are two valid counter-arguments against it.  1) Putting non-armed folks in a situation where they may have to defend themselves and 2) Is it creating a system that isn't needed?  By training police to deal with these situations, could we achieve the same results, have folks that can defend themselves should the unthinkable happen, and also help them in everyday situations (not being a dick when they pull over a 20 year old that outside of doing 10mph over, doesn't trust the police and isn't terribly helpful (but also isn't doing anything wrong outside of the initial traffic issue.).

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38 minutes ago, Buddha said:

i dont think the democrats' harping on the russia investigation helped either.  impeachment was a different story, he had done enough things that impeachment was warranted (and should have happened, imo), but the russia stuff went a little overboard.

social media adds to the fire and trump has used it not to attempt to unify - like obama mostly did - but rather to divide and enrage the other side.  thats a dangerous precedent.  especially when you couple it with an economy that is bleeding good paying low education jobs and replacing them with low paying low education jobs.

its a recipe for disaster and violence.

what does this have to do with the russia investigation?

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15 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

The IC wasn't saying that Hillary won and Trump stole the election. The IC was investigating the Russia meddling. There is a difference.

They were investigating the deep ties the Trump campaign apparatus had with Russian IC and Putin government figures.   They had already concluded that Russia meddled in the election in November 2016 and knew it was happening as it happened during the 2016 campaign. 

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23 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

The Russia stuff was misframed. I don't think they cheated the election, and the Dems should have been sure to frame it that way. I just wanted illegal actions brought to bare.

Once again, the extreme messaging of the far left had downstream effects.

Bill Barr is far left?  His messaging was the misframing.

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17 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

The IC wasn't saying that Hillary won and Trump stole the election. The IC was investigating the Russia meddling. There is a difference.

I don't remember the basis of the Russia investigation being that Hillary actually won.   It was whether Trump committed crimes/collusion in winning.  

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It is interesting to me that there's a dude who's whole purpose in being in the AG job was to misframe this report, but we're here talking about how "the far left" misframed it?  C'mon man.  Really?

Seems like we're in the hippy-punching phase of revisionism now.

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4 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

They were investigating the deep ties the Trump campaign apparatus had with Russian IC and Putin government figures.   They had already concluded that Russia meddled in the election in November 2016 and knew it was happening as it happened during the 2016 campaign. 

do you think russia meddled in the 2014, 2018, and 2020 elections?

i do.  i didnt see the democrats screaming about it then.

we were talking about the erosion of norms and the election process which trump is currently undertaking.  the russian interference in the election stole the election for trump arguments were of the same vein, just much less harmful than trump's current actions.

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2 minutes ago, Buddha said:

do you think russia meddled in the 2014, 2018, and 2020 elections?

i do.  i didnt see the democrats screaming about it then.

we were talking about the erosion of norms and the election process which trump is currently undertaking.  the russian interference in the election stole the election for trump arguments were of the same vein, just much less harmful than trump's current actions.

Not at all like 2016.  They literally hacked and released a trove of emails from the DNC.  They participated directly with Bannon's digital targeting efforts.  Manafort was providing a back channel to Putin. 

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35 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I know it's not a specific policy agenda, but I do think that there's opportunity for the incoming administration if they can counterprogram some of the division and lower the temperature 

Biden, tempermentally, is probably the only guy from the Dem field who could feasibily attempt to do that... skeptical that it will happen, but they need to try

i agree they need to try and i hope they succeed.

and when they do, the left wing of the democratic party and twitter will pillory them as sellouts and weak and losers.

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Maybe I missed it, but again, my recollection is that the foundation of the Russia investigation was not that trump stole the election from Hillary - it was that trump committed crimes/collusion in the course of winning.    Case in point, we here discussed it in the impeachment thread, not the election thread, for years.

I never once thought the outcome of the russia investigation would be a Hillary presidency.  I definitely thought the outcome would be a Pence presidency.

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1 minute ago, ROMAD1 said:

Not at all like 2016.  They literally hacked and released a trove of emails from the DNC.  They participated directly with Bannon's digital targeting efforts.  Manafort was providing a back channel to Putin. 

you dont think the russians did that this time?  im sure they did.  ask hunter biden's computer.  ask one of the thousand bots on twitter.

 

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3 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Not at all like 2016.  They literally hacked and released a trove of emails from the DNC.  They participated directly with Bannon's digital targeting efforts.  Manafort was providing a back channel to Putin. 

The efforts they used in 2016 didn't exist in 2014.

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4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

you dont think the russians did that this time?  im sure they did.  ask hunter biden's computer.  ask one of the thousand bots on twitter.

 

they sure tried.  Trump was impeached behind some of that.

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5 minutes ago, pfife said:

The efforts they used in 2016 didn't exist in 2014.

TBF, they had Snowden doing his thing at the tail end of 2013.  

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1 minute ago, ROMAD1 said:

TBF, they had Snowden doing his thing at the tail end of 2013.  

My understanding from Wylie's book is the tactics they used were test run on Brexit.

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Just now, ROMAD1 said:

they sure tried.  Trump was impeached behind some of that.

he was impeached for trying to stop the investigation and doing everything he could to prevent it from happening.  a gross abuse of power.

but they never found anything to tie trump himself to it, because many of the people surrounding trump at the time prevented him from stupidly openly taking russian direct assistance.

the mueller investigation shed more of a light on trump's incompetence and immorality more than it did on russia handing him the election, which is what was asserted by many at the time.  

russian interference didnt cause trump's win, american voter stupidity did.

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3 minutes ago, pfife said:

My understanding from Wylie's book is the tactics they used were test run on Brexit.

Yeah, that's right.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

he was impeached for trying to stop the investigation and doing everything he could to prevent it from happening.  a gross abuse of power.

but they never found anything to tie trump himself to it, because many of the people surrounding trump at the time prevented him from stupidly openly taking russian direct assistance.

the mueller investigation shed more of a light on trump's incompetence and immorality more than it did on russia handing him the election, which is what was asserted by many at the time.  

russian interference didnt cause trump's win, american voter stupidity did.

Thanks for your just so assertions

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3 hours ago, Buddha said:

republicans control the senate and have made substantial gains in the house.  if history holds, the democrats will lose even more seats in the midterms.  those seats will not be aoc or ilhan omar held seats, they will be seats from "middle of the road" democrats.  thus, the democratic base in the house will continue to lean leftward.

biden will get nothing major done in four years that doesnt come through executive order.  if there is a budget to be passed, it will only marginally change the last trump budget and will be passed over the objection of the left wing democrats.

the one thing that will substantially change is foreign policy and we will stop antagonizing our allies while kissing dictator's behinds.  except iran, where were likely to go back to the obama era policy of iran *** kissing and apologizing for daring to criticize them for murdering people all over the world.

finally, i dont know where people think this "sensible middle" ruling through bipartisanship is going to rule from.  republicans have shown they are only interested in raw power and they still have it by controlling the senate.  theyre not going to suddenly give that up.  they will do to biden what they did to obama: block everything they can.

You are jumping the gun.  Biden may still yet get his senate majority.   Let’s wait until Georgia is decided in January. 

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30 minutes ago, pfife said:

I don't remember the basis of the Russia investigation being that Hillary actually won.   It was whether Trump committed crimes/collusion in winning.  

I agree.

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10 minutes ago, ROMAD1 said:

Thanks for your just so assertions

In fact he was impeached because they found plenty of evidence of crimes but the Senate confounded justice by not removing him.

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3 minutes ago, CMRivdog said:

 

You already tracked that Cory Lewandowski is positive?

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