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Greene / Boyd Trade Options

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16 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

After reading that post the thought crossed my mind of how a team built with that type in LF, RF, 1B & DH would fare?   We'd be back to clogged bases but also many bombs.....

It would win two pennants, several division titles, a wild card but zero world series over a 10 year span

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Lugo was/remains a better bet to provide some big league value than essentially a 5th round pick if JD walked. 

Right now, the return for JV looks pretty light... a 4th OF, 2nd division C and maybe nothing at all from Perez... but I agree that it will be at least another year until we can judge, and hope at least one of those guys becomes better than that.

It's clear we would have not scored Whitley or Tucker in the deal, but Yordan Alvarez is the player who feels like he easily could have been the 2nd or 3rd piece and is now better than them all...

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Just now, irvink said:

Lugo was/remains a better bet to provide some big league value than essentially a 5th round pick if JD walked. 

Right now, the return for JV looks pretty light... a 4th OF, 2nd division C and maybe nothing at all from Perez... but I agree that it will be at least another year until we can judge, and hope at least one of those guys becomes better than that.

It's clear we would have not scored Whitley or Tucker in the deal, but Yordan Alvarez is the player who feels like he easily could have been the 2nd or 3rd piece and is now better than them all...

I always like comments like this.

Well we should have asked for player x cause he is better than the players we got. But it ignores the fact yordan has a total of 125 abs and could easily cool off and be nothing. How many rookies have we seen do that? 

But he is for sure better than the guys who haven't even gotten to the big leagues yet.

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25 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

I always like comments like this.

Well we should have asked for player x cause he is better than the players we got. But it ignores the fact yordan has a total of 125 abs and could easily cool off and be nothing. How many rookies have we seen do that? 

But he is for sure better than the guys who haven't even gotten to the big leagues yet.

I'd take that bet right now. And it's not only 125 ABs in the bigs, it's his domination of AAA beforehand, and AA the year before that. Of the three guys we got, only Perez is younger than Yordan (by 6 months). Just bc we could not land one of the Astros' top 2 prospects did not mean we had to be left with a bum hand.

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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

Me too.  The market was bad for that type of player at the time (and may still be),  but I don't think it should be.  It seems like an overreaction to many years of undervaluing fielding.

The trade market at the deadline is a very different thing than the free agency market, of course. 

Deadline acquisitions of rental position players just aren’t that impactful. So the market for those players is never going to be that good. 

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48 minutes ago, irvink said:

I'd take that bet right now. And it's not only 125 ABs in the bigs, it's his domination of AAA beforehand, and AA the year before that. Of the three guys we got, only Perez is younger than Yordan (by 6 months). Just bc we could not land one of the Astros' top 2 prospects did not mean we had to be left with a bum hand.

That's exactly my point.

We dont know we are left with a bum hand. You've made your mind up after 125 abs. **** Avila looked like piazza in 125 abs

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I'd like to see the correlation between highly rated prospects that do well right out of the gate and them ending up carrying that over.   I'm always skeptical of guys like Boesch that come of nowhere and get off to hot starts but guys that had a pedigree in the minors, were highly rated by scouts and hit right from the start when they get to the majors I feel really confident in.   It "seems" that guys that do that rarely end up falling off a cliff, particularly in the past 10 or so years where scouting and analytics departments have been beefed up.  

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59 minutes ago, Shelton said:

The trade market at the deadline is a very different thing than the free agency market, of course. 

Deadline acquisitions of rental position players just aren’t that impactful. So the market for those players is never going to be that good. 

What about Cespedes?  

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1 hour ago, Keepleyland2 said:

That's exactly my point.

We dont know we are left with a bum hand. You've made your mind up after 125 abs. **** Avila looked like piazza in 125 abs

You seem to be seeing what you want to see. I said I was basing it not only on 125 abs but also a very good 2017 in the minors and a better 2018. Yordan is no lock to be a star, but he has a legit chance. I don't think any - of even the most optimistic - scouting reports on Daz/Rogers/Perez projects them to be a star.

 

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27 minutes ago, irvink said:

You seem to be seeing what you want to see. I said I was basing it not only on 125 abs but also a very good 2017 in the minors and a better 2018. Yordan is no lock to be a star, but he has a legit chance. I don't think any - of even the most optimistic - scouting reports on Daz/Rogers/Perez projects them to be a star.

 

According to this, two of the prospects were better than Yordan back in 2017 with Perez being considered borderline elite. Seems like you be seeing what you want to see.

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2016/12/12/13927492/houston-astros-top-20-prospects-for-2017

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5 hours ago, Lei Pong said:

Martinez did not have a lot of value...find me the poor fielding bat only OF who returned more in a trade the past few years.  There's very little in the way of a market for that player

 

then you re-sign him.  taking the poo poo platter should not have been an option.

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4 minutes ago, Buddha said:

then you re-sign him.  taking the poo poo platter should not have been an option.

For $200 million? It wasn't going to be cheap to re-sign JD and who knows if JD even wanted to re-sign. His agent was Boras. Boras clients rarely sign extensions that close to free agency. 

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1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

For $200 million? It wasn't going to be cheap to re-sign JD and who knows if JD even wanted to re-sign. His agent was Boras. Boras clients rarely sign extensions that close to free agency. 

sure, why not? 

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

sure, why not? 

Because the Tigers don't have the roster space for two DH's making nearly $60 million a year? 

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Just now, Motown Bombers said:

Because the Tigers don't have the money? 

yes they do.  come on.  they got rid of upton, victor, and most of jv.  no more kinsler either.

they had the money.  they wanted to tank.  understandable.  but not to the point of giving away an asset for nothing.

and let's not discuss how eloy jimenez is doing and how michael fulmer isnt.

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1 minute ago, Buddha said:

yes they do.  come on.  they got rid of upton, victor, and most of jv.  no more kinsler either.

they had the money.  they wanted to tank.  understandable.  but not to the point of giving away an asset for nothing.

and let's not discuss how eloy jimenez is doing and how michael fulmer isnt.

WTF does Eloy Jimenez and Michael Fulmer have to do with JD? You would want $60 million locked up into JD and Cabrera while simultaneously getting rid of Verlander and Upton? WTF is the point in sinking $60 million into the DH position on a team that isn't any good?

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34 minutes ago, Buddha said:

then you re-sign him.  taking the poo poo platter should not have been an option.

An interesting view completely out of phase with the concept of a rebuild based on shedding $$$ and focusing on the farm system.  Never mind the fact that JD may not have wanted to sign with a team that was going to be hot garbage for the foreseeable future

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1 hour ago, Buddha said:

then you re-sign him.  taking the poo poo platter should not have been an option.

I am with you there.  I know it goes against how you are supposed to re-build, but that's not my problem.  Another option was to trade him earlier.  I was against that at the time, but if I knew they were going to lose on purpose for the next four years, I would have been in favor of getting something for him.   

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Having so many teams in the Wild Card race in the NL (and AL too), and teams that need at least 1 starting pitcher,  If Al doesn't walk away with something really good for Boyd.......he's an awful GM.   Everything is breaking the Tigers way for a great deal to happen.    They should get 2 MLB-ready prospects

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Resigning JD would have been the worst move ever for the rebuild.   You don't commit 200 million dollars to a guy who's on the wrong side of 30 and who's best position is occupied by another guy you already owe 200 million dollars to just cause you don't like what's being offered to you in trades.    

Also I think people are putting too much stock into JD's performance in Arizona and what he did with the Red Sox last season.  Yes if we knew we could get that JD for most of the contract it wouldn't have been bad, but as good of hitter as he is he isn't prime Cabrera or Pujols like he hit for that season and a half.    He's closer to what he is doing this year than what he did then, which is a great hitter but not somebody you'd commit that much to long term at the stage of the career he is in and stage of the rebuild we were in.  

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