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Greene / Boyd Trade Options

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1 hour ago, LooseGoose said:

Well it is better to start high than to start low.    

I don't get why that is so unreasonable to ask, like some and the writer suggest. Boyd has WAR of 2.9 this year and is under control for what, four more years? Torres has a WAR of 2.5 this year.  Not to mention the Yankees have about 9 2nd basemen on their roster. 

Dear Yankee fans, you have to give up something to get something. This isn't just give us your crap and we'll say thank you. 

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1 hour ago, LooseGoose said:

Well it is better to start high than to start low.    

It's certainly a strategy. I guess my perspective has shifted to seeing Al as more of a buffoon and so I can't help but question this strategy. Starting high by asking for the Yankees top 2 prospects + is one thing. Asking for their All Star, 2nd year, 22 yr old SS who has 19 HR in 74 games feels like another. 

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We don't really know that he asked for Torres, but if he did, that might stop negotiations right there.  Boyd isn't the only pitcher on the market.

Big offseason for Al.  If he can't turn some positive trades he may get himself fired.

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5 minutes ago, irvink said:

It's certainly a strategy. I guess my perspective has shifted to seeing Al as more of a buffoon and so I can't help but question this strategy. Starting high by asking for the Yankees top 2 prospects + is one thing. Asking for their All Star, 2nd year, 22 yr old SS who has 19 HR in 74 games feels like another. 

2.5 war Torres

3 for boyd.

Boyd is a pretty damn good all-star player too.

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16 minutes ago, Keepleyland2 said:

2.5 war Torres

3 for boyd.

Boyd is a pretty damn good all-star player too.

And not just this year - career 6.2 -5.4 advantage Boyd.

People have been overvaluing Yankee prospects for 100 years.

 

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23 minutes ago, irvink said:

It's certainly a strategy. I guess my perspective has shifted to seeing Al as more of a buffoon and so I can't help but question this strategy. Starting high by asking for the Yankees top 2 prospects + is one thing. Asking for their All Star, 2nd year, 22 yr old SS who has 19 HR in 74 games feels like another. 

So in this case WAR is a bogus stat to be ignored?

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5 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

So in this case WAR is a bogus stat to be ignored?

WAR tells you about what a player accomplished over a long period of time in the past.  I don't know how useful it is for projecting the future.  It presets an argument for Boyd being more valuable so far than Torres.  I would certainly prefer Torres going forward based on age and likelihood of improvement.  

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25 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Boyd is also much older than Torres, which is very significant.

Yes.

OTOH, pitchers may play longer at their position than shortstops so the difference, while real, can be be discounted a couple/three years. A guy like Boyd could easily still be pitching well in 8 yrs, Torres may be an effective at a premium defensive position for another 11. Which on the third hand has to be balanced for injury risk. 

It's a tall ask, it's a not an out of ballpark opening bid considering that the Yankee's needs are also far more time critical.

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

true, OTOH, pitchers may play longer at their position than shortstops so the difference, while real, can be be discounted a couple/three years. A guy like Boyd could easily still be pitching well in 8 yrs, Torres may be an effective at a premium defensive position for another 11. Which on the third hand has to be balanced for injury risk. 

It's a tall ask, it's a not an out of ballpark opening bid considering that the Yankee's needs are also far more time critical.

I don't know that a guy like Boyd could easily be pitching this well in 8 yearsI think those pitchers who are able to stay healthy can maintain productivity longer than batters, but not many can stay healthy.  I believe getting Torres would be a steal.   

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4 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

I don't know that a guy like Boyd could easily be pitching this well in 8 yearsI think those pitchers who are able to stay healthy can maintain productivity longer than batters, but not many can stay healthy.  I believe getting Torres would be a steal.   

I know his hitting history well enough, what kind of glove does he project to have as a SS ? 

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41 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

And not just this year - career 6.2 -5.4 advantage Boyd.

People have been overvaluing Yankee prospects for 100 years.

 

Yep, didnt we just go through this with Verlander. "No way we would give up Frazier and moteo for him. "

Ask the Astros how that is working out.

While it's a tall ask and not likely gonna happen. It's not what some here and the ny media are portraying it as. Boyd is a darn good pitcher and while age is a factor, hes 28 not 38.

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30 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

WAR tells you about what a player accomplished over a long period of time in the past.  I don't know how useful it is for projecting the future.  It presets an argument for Boyd being more valuable so far than Torres.  I would certainly prefer Torres going forward based on age and likelihood of improvement.  

I would agree in general, I don't agree with those that say it was absurd to ask.   Why not ask for more than you think you'll get if the Yankees are doing the calling?   

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39 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Boyd is also much older than Torres, which is very significant.

Of course it is.  There are lots of mediocre players who have a higher career WAR and higher career counting stats than a great young player like, say, Cody Bellinger.  The word "career" sort of explains it.

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Or, alternately, Torres has more future value than Boyd, and that is what matters in a deal, not who has more past value.

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8 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Or, alternately, Torres has more future value than Boyd, and that is what matters in a deal, not who has more past value.

Nobody is disagreeing with any of your points.

What people object to is that this was some unreasonable inital ask.

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Or, alternately, Torres has more future value than Boyd, and that is what matters in a deal, not who has more past value.

Yes that's true but The Yankees are poised for a championship and should be willing to discount future performance for current. Thats normal when Winners are trading with Losers. It's the Wimpy promise " I'll give you two burgers tomorrow for one today "...or something like that.

 

yes I am old.

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Just now, socaltiger said:

Yes that's true but The Yankees are poised for a championship and should be willing to discount future performance for current. Thats normal when Winners are trading with Losers. It's the Wimpy promise " I'll give you two burgers tomorrow for one today "...or something like that.

 

yes I am old.

Where can we pick up these free hamburgers?

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1 minute ago, Keepleyland2 said:

Where can we pick up these free hamburgers?

I think Popeye or Oliveoil has them ? Not sure but its a better chance than curly fries...Hardees going out on thin limb offering free food for 3 homers from this Tiger team in one game ! LOL....should change it to 3 runs.

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I wasn't commenting on the reasonable v. unreasonable ask.

I was commenting on the career WAR, which is irrelevant.

Honestly, this seasons WAR suggests the Yankees would get little to no realizable benefit this season, so I would suggest that argues against a trade from the Yankees perspective.

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I thought the line was I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today, but I admit to not knowing what is canon in the Popeye universe.

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Just now, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

 

Honestly, this seasons WAR suggests the Yankees would get little to no realizable benefit this season, so I would suggest that argues against a trade.

I think if you are comparing this year's war and benefit from a yankees perspective. Its more fair to compare Tores + Whoever Boyd replaces WAR vs Boyd and whoever replaces Torres given one is a pitcher and one is a hitter.

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In general Al should stay away from Cashman. I don't think that turns out well for us.

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