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Greene / Boyd Trade Options

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7 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

That second deal alone should have been enough to get Astute Al Avila fired.

November 14, 2014: Signed as a Free Agent with the Detroit Tigers.

Dombrowski was fired on 8/4/15..........so it would seem he was GM when this was signed.

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1 minute ago, LooseGoose said:

November 14, 2014: Signed as a Free Agent with the Detroit Tigers.

Dombrowski was fired on 8/4/15..........so it would seem he was GM when this was signed.

So?

Actually, I looked back and found an article saying that Avila offered V-Mart that second four-year deal.  But even if that is wrong, I am strongly opposed to letting the truth get in the way of a good rant, or of a trashing of Al Avila.

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I recall a story that DD only went three years but he was going to sign with Seattle so Ilitch stepped in with a fourth year.  

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4 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

So?

Actually, I looked back and found an article saying that Avila offered V-Mart that second four-year deal.  But even if that is wrong, I am strongly opposed to letting the truth get in the way of a good rant, or of a trashing of Al Avila.

I understand how you feel, I'm the same way with Brad Ausmus.

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1 minute ago, LooseGoose said:

I understand how you feel, I'm the same way with Brad Ausmus.

I'm the Grand Poobah of the Anti Inconvenient Facts League.  I'd be happy to sponsor you for membership.  There's no background check (hence how I got in), but dues must be paid up front.  Cash or negotiable instrument payable to me preferred, and will get you a premium t-shirt instead of a blem. 

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9 hours ago, Oblong said:

I recall a story that DD only went three years but he was going to sign with Seattle so Ilitch stepped in with a fourth year.  

Yes, I remember that as well.

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21 hours ago, LooseGoose said:

I was referring to Texas offering an extension in the trade scenario.....I'll admit I wasn't very clear.

Oh, OK. I read it wrong. But...Boras has a history of not renegotiating contracts with players before a trade. He used to like his players being fought over. With the recent market trends though, I'm not sure if he still plays hardball with teams. Many teams are now going for the less expensive farmhand youngsters over the established players. The price difference is the main reason. Nick is making almost $10 million this season. No way is he worth that, IMO. But I'm old school and I feel most of the higher priced players just aren't worth it.

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1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Oh, OK. I read it wrong. But...Boras has a history of not renegotiating contracts with players before a trade. He used to like his players being fought over. With the recent market trends though, I'm not sure if he still plays hardball with teams. Many teams are now going for the less expensive farmhand youngsters over the established players. The price difference is the main reason. Nick is making almost $10 million this season. No way is he worth that, IMO. But I'm old school and I feel most of the higher priced players just aren't worth it.

I'm sorry, but weren't you the one suggesting Nick could easily get a $75million/5 year deal on the market earlier in this thread? And that Nick and Boras would never accept a QO? Now he's not even worth the $10 million he's making this year?

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16 hours ago, TigerNation said:

I'm sorry, but weren't you the one suggesting Nick could easily get a $75million/5 year deal on the market earlier in this thread? And that Nick and Boras would never accept a QO? Now he's not even worth the $10 million he's making this year?

What he gets and what he's worth are totally different. I really don't think most players are worth the money they get. Boras had a reputation of getting his players max contracts. But with many team being a bit more conservative, I could see Nick sitting until after the draft in 2020 if he turns down a QO from the Tigers. Is Max Scherzer worth $1 million per start? Some may argue he is but that money could cripple a franchise. I guess that's why some teams are showing restraint? 

As for Nick's worth on the open market? In years past, he could get a long term deal. Now? I'm not so sure any team would spend huge dollars on a DH type player. I guess we'll wait and see, first at the trade deadline and then in the winter.

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19 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

What he gets and what he's worth are totally different. I really don't think most players are worth the money they get. Boras had a reputation of getting his players max contracts. But with many team being a bit more conservative, I could see Nick sitting until after the draft in 2020 if he turns down a QO from the Tigers. Is Max Scherzer worth $1 million per start? Some may argue he is but that money could cripple a franchise. I guess that's why some teams are showing restraint? 

As for Nick's worth on the open market? In years past, he could get a long term deal. Now? I'm not so sure any team would spend huge dollars on a DH type player. I guess we'll wait and see, first at the trade deadline and then in the winter.

sounds like you're walking this back.  Of course you have to figure in the current economic structure, which has turned to a buyers market ( and has been for the last two offseasons).

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9 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

sounds like you're walking this back.  Of course you have to figure in the current economic structure, which has turned to a buyers market ( and has been for the last two offseasons).

Not really walking back on it. More like looking at the big picture and recent events. A few years ago, Nick would have been offered a long term contract. But times are changing with contracts and if he were offered a QO of $18 million (I didn't believe it would be that high), I do believe he would take it. But a few years ago he might have been offered 5 years at $15 million per year. Or whatever....

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There's an article in the Athletic this afternoon from their Brewers guy (Robert Murray) about trading for an "ace".   Heavy inference on a preference for Boyd given his breakout season and that he's controllable.  They quote an anonymous NL source stating he'd be surprised if the Tigers don't move Boyd.

Rumor in the article is the main piece Milwaukee would need to give up is Mauricio Dubon.  24 year old SS (also some 2B).  Don't know much about him but numbers look pretty darn good on baseball reference.

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14 minutes ago, Lou Ferigno said:

There's an article in the Athletic this afternoon from their Brewers guy (Robert Murray) about trading for an "ace".   Heavy inference on a preference for Boyd given his breakout season and that he's controllable.  They quote an anonymous NL source stating he'd be surprised if the Tigers don't move Boyd.

Rumor in the article is the main piece Milwaukee would need to give up is Mauricio Dubon.  24 year old SS (also some 2B).  Don't know much about him but numbers look pretty darn good on baseball referenced.

The back of the envelop counterpoint on Dubon - 24 yrs old, PCL numbers, won't take a walk.

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13 minutes ago, Lou Ferigno said:

There's an article in the Athletic this afternoon from their Brewers guy (Robert Murray) about trading for an "ace".   Heavy inference on a preference for Boyd given his breakout season and that he's controllable.  They quote an anonymous NL source stating he'd be surprised if the Tigers don't move Boyd.

Rumor in the article is the main piece Milwaukee would need to give up is Mauricio Dubon.  24 year old SS (also some 2B).  Don't know much about him but numbers look pretty darn good on baseball reference.

lol, don't know a thing about the kid but a middle INF for Boyd would at least drive discussion here.

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31 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

The back of the envelop counterpoint on Dubon - 24 yrs old, PCL numbers, won't take a walk.

That was my take.  BA did rank him 6th in the Brewers system, but I am not sure what that means.  

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Yeah, I'm not in the camp that believes we'll get an Eloy/Cease like package for Boyd, but if they are going to move him, they have to do better than Dubon as a centerpiece. Maybe a decent 2nd player.

FG has him ranked 4th in the Brewers system, with a 45 grade. His numbers are not particularly impressive for a 24.9 year old in the PCL. Avila got better return for Leonys Martin. 

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I do think the Brewers are a nice fit for Boyd. They may need a front end starter more than any other contender and as a smaller market team, the years of cost control are even more important. 

No chance we get their top prospect, Hiura, a top 10 talent in the game and one who has already had success at MLB level. 

Tristan Lutz could be an interesting centerpiece. FG has him as a 50 FV and ranked 90th overall in the game. He's in Hi-A now and not having a great year.  From FG

Quote

 

He has below-average range and instincts in right field, but his arm is plus. Lutz will likely start next season, age-20, at Hi-A. He projects as a middle-of-the-order power bat who provides little value on defense. 


 

Brice Turang is the other player who could potentially headline a deal. FG has him as a 45+ and moving up. He did not ran in the top 120 but he's having a nice year, his first full one in the pros. He was considered a potential 1/1 candidate early last year but fell to Brewers, later in 1st round. He's a slick fielding shortstop. Midwest League numbers:  298/401/376/776 - Again, solid for a kid who will play the whole year as a 19 yr old. He does not turn 20 until Nov.

 

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Keston Hiura....if we trade with the Brewers I want Keston Hiura.  Boyd, Greene, Nick for Hiura, Lutz and some low level Latin middle INF's to scratch that peculiar Avila itch.

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Brewers blog breaks down the Athletic piece

 

Quote

 

Murray goes on to write that while he’s heard little in the way of substantive talk connecting the Brewers and trade candidates like Madison Bumgarner, Marcus Stroman, and Mike Minor, there is one hurler that they have been exploring a potential deal for — Matthew Boyd, burgeoning ace of the Detroit Tigers.

Murray suggests that Slingin’ Stearns and company would prefer to add a controllable player to the fold rather than pursue a rental option, and notes that beyond “untouchable” top prospect Keston Hiura, there are minor league players that other orgs value highly as potential difference-makers. Maurcio Dubon is someone that, within the article, Stearns specifically cites as a player who has gotten asked about a lot in previous trade conversations. Scouts that Murray spoke with say that Corey Ray is a player the industry is high on, despite a poor start as well as a finger injury during his first go-round in Triple-A. But coming up with an enticing package that doesn’t include Hiura might be a tall task for Milwaukee, as Jon Morosi has previously reported that an offering would need to be overwhelming in order to convince Detroit and GM Al Avila to part with Boyd.

Will this finally be the summer that Stearns makes a trade for an “ace”? Is Matthew Boyd’s surge so far in the first half of 2019 enough to convince Milwaukee’s brain trust and other front office execs around the league that he is a legitimate front-line, controllable starter after a string of seasons of back-end production? The Tigers will surely be marketing him that way, and if the Brewers are really sold on Matthew Boyd as the high-impact hurler they appear to need, then they’ll have to pay through the nose to get him.

 

 

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/6/21/18701328/matthew-boyd-milwaukee-brewers-detroit-tigers-mlb-trade-rumors

 

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2 hours ago, irvink said:

I do think the Brewers are a nice fit for Boyd. They may need a front end starter more than any other contender and as a smaller market team, the years of cost control are even more important. 

No chance we get their top prospect, Hiura, a top 10 talent in the game and one who has already had success at MLB level. 

Tristan Lutz could be an interesting centerpiece. FG has him as a 50 FV and ranked 90th overall in the game. He's in Hi-A now and not having a great year.  From FG

Brice Turang is the other player who could potentially headline a deal. FG has him as a 45+ and moving up. He did not ran in the top 120 but he's having a nice year, his first full one in the pros. He was considered a potential 1/1 candidate early last year but fell to Brewers, later in 1st round. He's a slick fielding shortstop. Midwest League numbers:  298/401/376/776 - Again, solid for a kid who will play the whole year as a 19 yr old. He does not turn 20 until Nov.

 

I do not think there will be a deal without Hiura. Their system doesn't match up well with our needs. We match up well with the Rockies. They have some nice talent in their system we would like. 

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Boyd has looked more like last year’s version lately.  Hope it doesn’t impact his trade value.

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I'm not worried about that.  I'm not a Dubon fan, but I'm definitely a Brice Turang fan, and I would want him and Tristen Lutz at least (throw in Ashby and I'm almost there).

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Another dude to watch in their system is Catcher Mario Feliciano.

From Fangraphs:

Quote

Full Report

Feliciano had a totally lost 2018 due to various nagging injuries. He was limited to just 42 games at Hi-A, and two in the Fall League. While at Hi-A Carolina, he struck out in 36% of his plate appearances. Feliciano also has one of the higher ceilings in this system. He turned 20 shortly before this list went to press, so his inabiltiy to perform as an 18-year-old in full-season ball in 2017 and a 19-year-old at Hi-A in 2018 is less troublesome due to his age. When healthy, Feliciano has shown bat control and above-average power on contact. If he can develop defensively (a process which has, thus far, been slow due to the reps lost to injury), Feliciano will be a catcher with a complete offensive profile, and a potential star. Teenage catching prospects are notoriously volatile and often, a decline in physical tools and/or stagnant defensive development starts with chronic injury. Feliciano's 2018 is what the start of past catching bust narravites look like. This is a very talented, volatile prospect who could be at or near the top of this list next year or be off it in two.

 

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