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Greene / Boyd Trade Options

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Nick is a bench bat throw in to enhance Greene's value.  Put him at 1st here and there ...play him some late at 3rd and let him play a little OF.  Demonstrate a little versatility...tht you can capably suck at at least 2-3 defensive positions and you might have the same value as a profoundly impoverished Chase Headley type.  You could possiboly expand the market to him to a semi-desperate NL team.

Boyd should have enough value on his own to nab a bat...Keston Hiura or bust, baby.

I don't know if Nick is a good dude or not.  He comes off a bit whiny for a guy who sucks

 

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if we can net two top 50 position prospects for some combination of Boyd, Greene and Casty, we should jump at it.

 

****, throw in Bobby Wilson if that is what is required to get it done.

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4 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Did someone argue Nick was a bad pick?

chas

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EE was traded to the Yankees for a 40 grade prospect who has yet to make his full season debut.

Seattle was happy to get a bit of salary relief as well for a player who leads the AL in HRs and has an OPS 125 points more than Nick.

When people say Avila will get a bags of balls for Nick, I hope they right.

 

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CJ Cron had an 816 ops last year with 30 HR. He was non-tendered by the Rays and signed for 1/4.8 by the Twins. He was 1 year older than Nick will be when he becomes a FA. Cron now has an 865 OPS with 15 HR so far. Or... Much better than Nick.

Even if the Tigers do not offer Nick a QO, I think it's highly questionable that he could beat the 18-19 million dollars a QO would guarantee on a 2 or even 3 year deal.

If offered, Nick would have to suck it up and accept, make the money, then go back out as a FA the following year when there will be no chance at a QO to drag his market. 

As of now, Nick is a terrible RF or DH. It'd be nice to see if he can play first, but I've seen Micro and others speculate that Nick couldn't even handle that. 

I don't know what it would possibly take for the Tigers to even consider offering Nick a QO. A 900 OPS and 25h HR the rest of the way + a successful transition to 1b?

Even then, the Tigers would probably be a lot better off spreading that money around to 2-3 FAs and hoping one clicks. 

I don't know if I'd say it's 100% that Nick gets traded, but I think it's pretty damn close and his moping is not helping. I do not think Avila is any longer under the delusion that he'll get some kind of exciting prospect for him. It is possible that another team sees something in him that they can fix and might offer the Tigers a low-A arm with some promise for the back of our top 30. I would certainly not expect more than that.

 

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7 minutes ago, irvink said:

CJ Cron had an 816 ops last year with 30 HR. He was non-tendered by the Rays and signed for 1/4.8 by the Twins. He was 1 year older than Nick will be when he becomes a FA. Cron now has an 865 OPS with 15 HR so far. Or... Much better than Nick.

Even if the Tigers do not offer Nick a QO, I think it's highly questionable that he could beat the 18-19 million dollars a QO would guarantee on a 2 or even 3 year deal.

If offered, Nick would have to suck it up and accept, make the money, then go back out as a FA the following year when there will be no chance at a QO to drag his market. 

As of now, Nick is a terrible RF or DH. It'd be nice to see if he can play first, but I've seen Micro and others speculate that Nick couldn't even handle that. 

I don't know what it would possibly take for the Tigers to even consider offering Nick a QO. A 900 OPS and 25h HR the rest of the way + a successful transition to 1b?

Even then, the Tigers would probably be a lot better off spreading that money around to 2-3 FAs and hoping one clicks. 

I don't know if I'd say it's 100% that Nick gets traded, but I think it's pretty damn close and his moping is not helping. I do not think Avila is any longer under the delusion that he'll get some kind of exciting prospect for him. It is possible that another team sees something in him that they can fix and might offer the Tigers a low-A arm with some promise for the back of our top 30. I would certainly not expect more than that.

 

You don't seem to understand that even given all of that if Avila doesn't get an epic haul for Nick then he sucks as a GM.

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18 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

EE was traded to the Yankees for a 40 grade prospect who has yet to make his full season debut.

Seattle was happy to get a bit of salary relief as well for a player who leads the AL in HRs and has an OPS 125 points more than Nick.

When people say Avila will get a bags of balls for Nick, I hope they right.

 

Woo-Hoo. We actually have a guy on the MLB roster that came back for JD.  😛

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13 minutes ago, LooseGoose said:

You don't seem to understand that even given all of that if Avila doesn't get an epic haul for Nick then he sucks as a GM.

We also can’t forget that Nick was a bad pick and his draft bonus was too high. 

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30 minutes ago, Shelton said:

We also can’t forget that Nick was a bad pick and his draft bonus was too high. 

And he's whiny, too.

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12 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

And he's whiny, too.

And that reflects on the manager.  I thought Gardenhire wasn't going to let those kinds of things happen

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3 hours ago, Shelton said:

I don’t know about DH, but there are a number of “contending” teams whose right field situation could be improved by the 800 ops version of castellanos. The degree of improvement varies. In no case do I see a team giving up much in value to get him. But when the tigers cover his salary, I think they will find someone to take him. 

Cubs, cards, rangers, dbacks, A’s, Braves, Indians, even the White Sox. 

That said, I only skimmed the depth charts on fangraphs so I’m sure there are factors in play for certain teams that would take them out of the running. 

The Cubs are lousy with outfielders so they're definitely out. The White Sox are not in win now mode so they're practically out. The Cardinals have Fowler on the books until 2021 so they're out. Nick is not a clear improvement on Mazara so Texas is out. Nick to replace Adam Jones is a wash so Dbacks are out. Nick to replace Piscotty is a wash plus he's more expensive so A's are out. Same with Markakis in Atlanta. The only one of those that might come close to making sense is Indians if money is no object since they need DH help too, but I'm guessing that for the team that tried to move Corey Kluber to cut payroll, money is an object.

Unless he's a throw-in on a Boyd or Greene deal, I think you'll need to get used to having Nick around for the rest of the year.

 

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57 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

Woo-Hoo. We actually have a guy on the MLB roster that came back for JD.  😛

After seeing the feeding frenzy during JD's free agency it was apparent Avila got hoodwinked in that deal.

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12 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The Cubs are lousy with outfielders so they're definitely out. The White Sox are not in win now mode so they're practically out. The Cardinals have Fowler on the books until 2021 so they're out. Nick is not a clear improvement on Mazara so Texas is out. Nick to replace Adam Jones is a wash so Dbacks are out. Nick to replace Piscotty is a wash plus he's more expensive so A's are out. Same with Markakis in Atlanta. The only one of those that might come close to making sense is Indians if money is no object since they need DH help too, but I'm guessing that for the team that tried to move Corey Kluber to cut payroll, money is an object.

Unless he's a throw-in on a Boyd or Greene deal, I think you'll need to get used to having Nick around for the rest of the year.

 

white sox are only 3 1/2 games out of the wild card! 

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2 hours ago, Buddha said:

chas

Whether Nick's a bad pick depends on what you want him for. If you wanted a player to put up 5 WAR over roughly six seasons, Nick's fine. If you were expecting a five-tool player who plays like Evan Longoria circa 2010, not so much.

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Just now, Buddha said:

white sox are only 3 1/2 games out of the wild card! 

That's great. They're not moving farm pieces to close that deal, though.

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17 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That's great. They're not moving farm pieces to close that deal, though.

not for nick.

for boyd?  maybe...probably not.

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20 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Whether Nick's a bad pick depends on what you want him for. If you wanted a player to put up 5 WAR over roughly six seasons, Nick's fine. If you were expecting a five-tool player who plays like Evan Longoria circa 2010, not so much.

well, he's not a superstar.  but neither are the vast majority of people taken before him.

if you expect a 5 tool evan longoria pick at 44, youre going to be disappointed a lot.  and if you take management's public relations assessment as gospel for what they really think of their future employee, youre going to be misled a lot.

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54 minutes ago, six-hopper said:

And he's whiny, too.

He's definitely a fusspot....if not an out and out crabby pants

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34 minutes ago, chasfh said:

The Cubs are lousy with outfielders so they're definitely out. The White Sox are not in win now mode so they're practically out. The Cardinals have Fowler on the books until 2021 so they're out. Nick is not a clear improvement on Mazara so Texas is out. Nick to replace Adam Jones is a wash so Dbacks are out. Nick to replace Piscotty is a wash plus he's more expensive so A's are out. Same with Markakis in Atlanta. The only one of those that might come close to making sense is Indians if money is no object since they need DH help too, but I'm guessing that for the team that tried to move Corey Kluber to cut payroll, money is an object.

Unless he's a throw-in on a Boyd or Greene deal, I think you'll need to get used to having Nick around for the rest of the year.

 

What does it mean to be lousy with outfielders? Perhaps that was an autocorrect issue. 

I’m not really that invested in this argument. I do think that some outfielders will change teams over the next six weeks, though, and that nick could be one of them. 

You can point to all of those various players that exist on those teams as a reason they might not be interested in him, and you’d probably be right in many cases. But I also think it’s true that for many of those teams Nick could still be considered an upgrade. And for a 2-3 month rental, contract status or incumbency can be overcome. 

As I said in my previous post, the tigers probably need to pay his salary and not expect much in return. In that case, how expensive he is or whether another team is in win now mode or rebuilding mode is irrelevant. 

I agree that many of those teams would not be options if they had to pay his full salary or if they had to give up a good prospect to get him. I don’t believe that to be the case. 

But for that reason also, I don’t really care if he is traded or not. In either case it is highly unlikely that it will make any difference.

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18 minutes ago, Buddha said:

not for nick.

for boyd?  maybe...probably not.

I doubt they move pieces for anyone anywhere. They've been invested in a Cubs/Astros-style building plan and it's looking really promising, given the pieces they've acquired. I'd bet they take their chances on losing out on the wild card long shot this year.

14 minutes ago, Buddha said:

well, he's not a superstar.  but neither are the vast majority of people taken before him.

if you expect a 5 tool evan longoria pick at 44, youre going to be disappointed a lot.  and if you take management's public relations assessment as gospel for what they really think of their future employee, youre going to be misled a lot.

I myself didn't expect it, but that is how David Chadd sold it to the media and the fans at the time. He may well have actually believed it, too, which might explain why they way overpaid on slot. I know this kind of thing is out of style here in 2019, but I was simply holding the guy accountable for his words.

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4 minutes ago, Shelton said:

What does it mean to be lousy with outfielders? Perhaps that was an autocorrect issue. 

I’m not really that invested in this argument. I do think that some outfielders will change teams over the next six weeks, though, and that nick could be one of them. 

You can point to all of those various players that exist on those teams as a reason they might not be interested in him, and you’d probably be right in many cases. But I also think it’s true that for many of those teams Nick could still be considered an upgrade. And for a 2-3 month rental, contract status or incumbency can be overcome. 

As I said in my previous post, the tigers probably need to pay his salary and not expect much in return. In that case, how expensive he is or whether another team is in win now mode or rebuilding mode is irrelevant. 

I agree that many of those teams would not be options if they had to pay his full salary or if they had to give up a good prospect to get him. I don’t believe that to be the case. 

But for that reason also, I don’t really care if he is traded or not. In either case it is highly unlikely that it will make any difference.

tbh - if, and of course it's a major "if", Victor Reyes were to start walking a bit I would want to see him get a shot at RF, or lets say Cameron heats up. I think at that point it would be better for Nick to be traded than sat down, though now there do seem to be some noises he may be willing to play 1st. But I'm not sure I don't still prefer Dixon there.

LOL - so it's supposed to be a good dilemma when you reach the point where you have too many good players to play. It's just a PITA when you have too many bad ones!

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13 minutes ago, Shelton said:

What does it mean to be lousy with outfielders? Perhaps that was an autocorrect issue. 

I’m not really that invested in this argument. I do think that some outfielders will change teams over the next six weeks, though, and that nick could be one of them. 

You can point to all of those various players that exist on those teams as a reason they might not be interested in him, and you’d probably be right in many cases. But I also think it’s true that for many of those teams Nick could still be considered an upgrade. And for a 2-3 month rental, contract status or incumbency can be overcome. 

As I said in my previous post, the tigers probably need to pay his salary and not expect much in return. In that case, how expensive he is or whether another team is in win now mode or rebuilding mode is irrelevant. 

I agree that many of those teams would not be options if they had to pay his full salary or if they had to give up a good prospect to get him. I don’t believe that to be the case. 

But for that reason also, I don’t really care if he is traded or not. In either case it is highly unlikely that it will make any difference.

For a guy who’s not invested in the discussion, you sure barfed up a lot of words on it! 😂

To be “lousy with” is a colloquial way of saying to have a lot of something. You’re not as old as I, though, so you can be forgiven for never having heard it. 🤓

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