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1 hour ago, tiger337 said:

 any time he wants.  

I am completely serious however that he probably never anticipated the organization would eschew  productive talent in favor of "cheap and controllable" personnel  during his contract quite to the extent that they have.

Realizing that he's gonna finish his career not with a contender has got to sting a little, and I doubt he expected things to play out that way

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11 minutes ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

I am completely serious however that he probably never anticipated the organization would eschew  productive talent in favor of "cheap and controllable" personnel  during his contract quite to the extent that they have.

Realizing that he's gonna finish his career not with a contender has got to sting a little, and I doubt he expected things to play out that way

I would think a smart player probably realizes any team other than the Yankees or maybe the Dodgers is not going to be able to maintain the payroll that huge contracts create for very long. What I do believe most probably think is that at any point in that contract they will still be valuable enough be traded out of any rebuild - a la Verlander.  Cabrera's injuries crashed his value exactly when he was a candidate, and contract inflation has slowed down to where he is still  too expensive even if he were productive.

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So you are saying that Miggy should have anticipated that Mike Ilitch's comment that he wanted Miggy to finish his career  as a Tiger was  a lie? 

I can't really agree with you here.  When they are pushing that big contract at you, and talking about "forever".... I don't  believe that conscious thought of the importance of remaining "tradable"  even enters the thought process. 

Maybe it should have.  And while clearly there was no  enforceable assurance to him that they would continue to roster a contender, just  seeing the caliber of players they continued to sign for several years after might give one that false sense of well being. 

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6 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

So you are saying that Miggy should have anticipated that Mike Ilitch's comment that he wanted Miggy to finish his career  as a Tiger was  a lie? 

I can't really agree with you here.  When they are pushing that big contract at you, and talking about "forever".... I don't  believe that conscious thought of the importance of remaining "tradable"  even enters the thought process. 

Maybe it should have.  And while clearly there was no  enforceable assurance to him that they would continue to roster a contender, just  seeing the caliber of players they continued to sign for several years after might give one that false sense of well being. 

well to be completely hard headed here - any player has to  know that the baseball  dynasty is as extinct as the dodo. Even if he hears Mike Ilitch commit to doing everything he can, anyone who has been around baseball all his life would know how the draft and the CBA and the luxury tax works, that no team stays on top regardless of how much a management would like to. If he wasn't that sophisticated about the game he had spent most of his life in by then, my sympathy is limited.

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I know Ilitch wanted Miggy to finish his career as a Tiger but Dombrowski really screwed the pooch by not talking him out of that extension, or at the very least tell him not to give him that extension 2 years before he hit FA.   The year after he signed that extension his OPS went down 200 points,  his WAR was cut in half then the following season he started getting hurt and only played in 110 games.  If they would have seen those 2 seasons play out there's no way he would have gotten close to what he got. 

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1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

I know Ilitch wanted Miggy to finish his career as a Tiger but Dombrowski really screwed the pooch by not talking him out of that extension, or at the very least tell him not to give him that extension 2 years before he hit FA.   The year after he signed that extension his OPS went down 200 points,  his WAR was cut in half then the following season he started getting hurt and only played in 110 games.  If they would have seen those 2 seasons play out there's no way he would have gotten close to what he got. 

I wonder what the true dynamic was between Ilitch and Dombrowski.

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3 hours ago, Casimir said:

I wonder what the true dynamic was between Ilitch and Dombrowski.

I would guess whatever it was early on, it changed a lot by the end. One possibility is that as Mike Ilitch's health failed he became difficult to work with and some people just don't deal with that well. It's been my experience that it's not uncommon for middle age and older people to not cope well with the failing elderly, maybe because subconsciously they can't deal with looking at their own futures too closely yet. That can lead to a falling out and lack of communication from either or both sides. And quite possibly Mike just got recalcitrant about having his way and the family was unwilling to take control of the team away from him - so DD may have gotten the brunt.

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6 hours ago, Gehringer_2 said:

I would guess whatever it was early on, it changed a lot by the end. One possibility is that as Mike Ilitch's health failed he became difficult to work with and some people just don't deal with that well. It's been my experience that it's not uncommon for middle age and older people to not cope well with the failing elderly, maybe because subconsciously they can't deal with looking at their own futures too closely yet. That can lead to a falling out and lack of communication from either or both sides. And quite possibly Mike just got recalcitrant about having his way and the family was unwilling to take control of the team away from him - so DD may have gotten the brunt.

Yes, sounds completely reasonable.

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Alternately, it is possible the whole thing was disorganized as Mike may have been in and out of it day to day / Chris giving mixed messages but doesn't want to step on his dad's toes.

Not saying that happened - I have no clue, but I have a sibling that dealt with that in her career (i.e. the company she worked for had a rocky transition of power due to the founder's failing health).

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2 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Alternately, it is possible the whole thing was disorganized as Mike may have been in and out of it day to day / Chris giving mixed messages but doesn't want to step on his dad's toes.

yup - the family put a brave face on it, but it was not hard to guess from his public appearances that Mike may have been in worse shape than was let on. Also understandable.

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19 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

So you are saying that Miggy should have anticipated that Mike Ilitch's comment that he wanted Miggy to finish his career  as a Tiger was  a lie? 

I can't really agree with you here.  When they are pushing that big contract at you, and talking about "forever".... I don't  believe that conscious thought of the importance of remaining "tradable"  even enters the thought process. 

Maybe it should have.  And while clearly there was no  enforceable assurance to him that they would continue to roster a contender, just  seeing the caliber of players they continued to sign for several years after might give one that false sense of well being. 

That is why players have agents. To take the emotion out of it. For all we know, Miggy may have an opt out clause. But the only time a player will use that is if he thinks a different team will give him a bigger or longer contract. Logic dictates that no team is stupid enough to take on even the contract he already has. No team with any sense is going to give him even more. 

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40 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Logic dictates that no team is stupid enough to take on even the contract he already has.

Logic dictated not handing over that extension, but here we are.

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On 5/27/2019 at 6:35 PM, Gehringer_2 said:

well to be completely hard headed here - any player has to  know that the baseball  dynasty is as extinct as the dodo. Even if he hears Mike Ilitch commit to doing everything he can, anyone who has been around baseball all his life would know how the draft and the CBA and the luxury tax works, that no team stays on top regardless of how much a management would like to. If he wasn't that sophisticated about the game he had spent most of his life in by then, my sympathy is limited.

Let me emphasize that my comment earlier of "poor Miggy"  was sarcasm.

The main reason why I even started this contemplation was really just to satire unanticipated variables  between parties that  otherwise have contractual agreements. If Miggy truly expected to be protected in the line up, he should have gotten it in writing. He didn't so too bad for poor Miggy.

"You mean you're gonna pay me $30M/YR and I gotta do ALL THE HARD WORK?"  ...well it seems that way now.

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6 hours ago, Sports_Freak said:

, Miggy may have an opt out clause. 

The "opt out" comment was a ruse.  I was curious how many members would try to go "shark tank" over it.

A few, but not as many as I expected.

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On 5/27/2019 at 5:51 PM, RandyMarsh said:

I know Ilitch wanted Miggy to finish his career as a Tiger but Dombrowski really screwed the pooch by not talking him out of that extension, or at the very least tell him not to give him that extension 2 years before he hit FA.   The year after he signed that extension his OPS went down 200 points,  his WAR was cut in half then the following season he started getting hurt and only played in 110 games.  If they would have seen those 2 seasons play out there's no way he would have gotten close to what he got. 

Jerk. Miggy needs those millions he has not only a legitimate family to support but a second family in Florida. Plus he was trying to hide the second family, from the first one. That isn’t cheap.

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2 hours ago, DumberAndLeaner said:

Let me emphasize that my comment earlier of "poor Miggy"  was sarcasm.

The main reason why I even started this contemplation was really just to satire unanticipated variables  between parties that  otherwise have contractual agreements. If Miggy truly expected to be protected in the line up, he should have gotten it in writing. He didn't so too bad for poor Miggy.

"You mean you're gonna pay me $30M/YR and I gotta do ALL THE HARD WORK?"  ...well it seems that way now.

👍

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With everything that has happened. I honestly do not have sympathy for Miggy and his contract, or for the Tigers  organization for that matter  in offering the contract that they did. Both parties knew, or should have been at least been thoroughly advised on the possible scenarios and pitfalls. The parties  were in an informed position when they took their gamble.  They took there gamble and lost.  We will get to watch the noble, aging veteran as he finishes his ascent to the mountain top.

A number of the folks here may have even commented on the risks when the contract was news.

Things did not turn out as hoped.  I am totally without sympathy . What there is left is the stark realization that it is likely that 2021, 2022, and even possibly 2023 will be just as frustrating for a fan.

We are merely watching the coming and going of names  mostly soon to be forgotten,  except by some barfly that wins a trivia contest in say, 2030.

 

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20 hours ago, MAROTH4MVP said:

Jerk. Miggy needs those millions he has not only a legitimate family to support but a second family in Florida. Plus he was trying to hide the second family, from the first one. That isn’t cheap.

I honestly don't know why anyone cares that he had a child with someone other than his wife other than those directly involved.

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1 hour ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I honestly don't know why anyone cares that he had a child with someone other than his wife other than those directly involved.

Yeah, I don’t give a flip. But I find it messed up in a funny sort of way. Like superstar baseball player has hidden life. It reminds me of the episode of family guy where peter has a second family where he is the wife.

I’m not going to feel bad about making fun of some dude making millions of dollars because he’s a moron in his personal life. I don’t care one bit. But it’s also funny in a messed up sort of way. So I have no problems saying he is a doucher. 

But do I care? No not at all.

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A bit off topic but an interesting story in the Athletic On career stats of HOFers who were primarily first basemen and outfielders.

The players who played most of their career at first saw their OPS plus stats drop farther than outfielders after they turned 35. Only Bill Terry and Hank Greenberg held onto at least 90% of their pre 35 OPS+

Joey Votto, Miguel Cabrera and the age-based historical collapse we should’ve seen coming 
https://theathletic.com/1000292/2019/05/29/joey-votto-miguel-cabrera-and-the-age-based-historical-collapse-we-shouldve-seen-coming/

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And Bill Terry was a high average, (relatively) low power hitter, so I don't know as that he profiles well with Votto or Cabrera.

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Joey Votto is 35 years old?  Gadzooks....

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On 5/29/2019 at 8:33 PM, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I don't think anyone unaffected should feel anything one way or the other.

While I personally agree with that sentiment,.. such is not "the way of the world" .

Finding ever more ways to judge others as somehow "deficient" to themselves is very critical to many people's sense of well being. Entire books have been written about it, one noteworthy example thousands of years ago.

Then there is the whole "role models for our youth" argument that get's so much overplay.

Ego and status are no fun  unless one has a punching dummy to take advantage of. 

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