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5/9 @1:10 Los Angeles Angels vs Detroit Tigers

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16 minutes ago, kdog said:

Game will start at 2.

I hope you’re right. Thank you for sparing me from going into a Twitter to look for updates and being deluged with unrelated bad news about stuff I try to avoid. 

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13 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

At some point it is semantics, but I don't know as that Scherzer was considered established.  I'd suggest he was less established than Boyd is now, and it was hardly a  given that he would be an ace level pitcher.

I was as critical of that deal as anyone, but time obviously demonstrated the Tigers valued him more than the DBacks, and the Tigers were correct in their assessment.

All my point is that if the Tigers assess a younger, less established player to be better than Boyd, then they make the deal, independent if he is a pitcher or positional player.

OK -sure. In the abstract you make every single trade offered that can improve your team in whatever time frame your management is focused on. But the question under discussion seems to me to focus more on what kinds of trades the Tigers are trying to initiate as part of long term strategy. Or even more in the abstract, maybe I would take the argument to this: Teams initiating trades are in the main trying to use one kind of resource to obtain a different resource. In a market theory, that is a transaction that is going to have a cost - you will not get back the absolute value you started with, the value you are getting is specific value only to your situation. OTOH, the team on the other end of the transaction is the one that going to reap the transaction cost because they are doing something they didn't have to. The idea here is the analogy to who pays the fees on puts and calls. I guess in short my argument is that you are likely to do better in trades where someone calls you up with a offer than when you are forcing the issue to fulfill a "strategy", so I am more skeptical of the value of what  trades you can make in the later case. 

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Each trade offer is unique because the trade partners have different assets to deal.

And yes, a team typically deals excess talent to gain talent in an area of weakness.

Specific to Boyd, could I imagine a situation where a team would want a cost controlled pitcher ready to contribute now for a top prospect that is say 2 years away in their estimation?

It would require the team to be ready to compete now with a weakness in the rotation paired with a general inability to take on salary in the foreseeable future.

So rather than it being an organizational positional deficiency, it would be a misalignment of timing that the Tigers would capitalize on in the hypothetical.  I do not know if any teams fit those specific conditions today, but I imagine there have been teams in that boat in the past.

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3 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Seemed clear to me he was pushing back on both your requirement of a guy beyond prospect status as well as limiting the return to position players. Max fails both of your tests, but would you say no to that?

If what Boyd is doing is real and he doesn't fade, I would rather have him anchor our pitching staff when we start to contend. If we just keep acquiring and developing these players just to keep trading them is entering the White Sox never ending rebuild mode. I don't want that. With some of the young stud pitchers coming this way, now is the time to start considering who we want on the roster. Norris was considered the prize and Boyd a throw-in for David Price. Let Norris go if need be.

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Carpy is pitching like an opener...about to get lit up.

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1 minute ago, kdog said:

Carpy is pitching like an opener...about to get lit up.

Yep, this game could be over here in the 1st inning

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6 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

OK -sure. In the abstract you make every single trade offered that can improve your team in whatever time frame your management is focused on. But the question under discussion seems to me to focus more on what kinds of trades the Tigers are trying to initiate as part of long term strategy. Or even more in the abstract, maybe I would take the argument to this: Teams initiating trades are in the main trying to use one kind of resource to obtain a different resource. In a market theory, that is a transaction that is going to have a cost - you will not get back the absolute value you started with, the value you are getting is specific value only to your situation. OTOH, the team on the other end of the transaction is the one that going to reap the transaction cost because they are doing something they didn't have to. The idea here is the analogy to who pays the fees on puts and calls. I guess in short my argument is that you are likely to do better in trades where someone calls you up with a offer than when you are forcing the issue to fulfill a "strategy", so I am more skeptical of the value of what  trades you can make in the later case. 

In basically every deal ever each side values the return more than the cost. If one party is more motivated than another that might shift which team benefitted more, but not making a deal just because you don’t win “enough” is not an excuse to close yourself off to the benefit of the deal. 

The cost to be afraid of is whether or not you think you can benefit more by waiting. That of course also carries a risk, and I think fulmer is a prime example.

at the end of the day, even if you trade Boyd and the guys you get back don’t pan out, you aren’t necessarily any worse than if you had held him if the team wasn’t a Matt Boyd away from contention. But that’s also the worst case scenario. Boyd could also get hurt and the guys you didn’t trade him for become valuable major leaguers. 

The one thing I’m definitely not doing is keeping Boyd or anyone for the matter around for the purpose of veteran leadership or to keep people coming to the ballpark. 

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Two runs down to start the game; hopefully our aging overpaid superstar can do a better job than their’s. 

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so what is the point of using the reliever in the 1st instead of the 5th or 6th? - just to give the guy who pitches the most innings (say innings 2 thru 5) a chance to register the "W" even if he doesn't go 5? 

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4 minutes ago, IdahoBert said:

Two runs down to start the game; hopefully our aging overpaid superstar can do a better job than their’s. 

would Albert have scored from 1st on a double?

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Carpenter is awful.  Keuchel and/or Shields should be looked into

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Are the Tigers diametrically opposed to openers? With all the injuries and the upcoming doubleheader it would be prudent.

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36 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Only you understand me, Shelton.

You are one of the easiest people to understand at MTS.  

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12 minutes ago, Shelton said:

In basically every deal ever each side values the return more than the cost

that does not mean both teams actually get back more absolute roster value than they give up. The team with the most flexibility - that can offer the most options to trading partner is going to reap the most profit from the transaction. Or maybe another way to put it is that as I understand market theory, teams that trade by opportunity probably do better long term than teams that trade as a primary strategy for improvement. Now clearly there is a limit here and the opposite side of the coin is that if the reason a team doesn't have a trading strategy is because it doesn't have an overall steam construction strategy at all is also clearly a losing proposition!.

and I hope the discussion remains interesting because the game apparently is not going to.

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Sometimes when one’s prospects for winning seem at first sight to be negligible, that initial insight is indeed accurate. 

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By the way, I saw Zimmerman in the dugout last night looking happy as a clam. Is he back anytime soon or is he just hanging with his homeys?

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