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HBO Real Sports Segment on The District Detroit...

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From the statement above, I wonder another source of a mismatch in the Ilitch view vs the outside view might be that they probably spent significantly more of their own money on the stadium than the original plan and to them that counts against the total private investment dollars they have put into the pot. 

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There is at least a 40 year history of hyped-up stadium projects failing to even come close to the inflated projections of economic spinoffs. Corporate welfare. Why would anyone have expected Illitch and the LCA to be any different, tons of people predicted this years ago. If a city or state puts in that much money, they should only do so as investment partners entitled to a share of revenue and profits. Anything otherwise is just unjustified grants .

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Just now, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

But the owners are losing money.  They said so.

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1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

There is at least a 40 year history of hyped-up stadium projects failing to even come close to the inflated projections of economic spinoffs. Corporate welfare. Why would anyone have expected Illitch and the LCA to be any different, tons of people predicted this years ago. If a city or state puts in that much money, they should only do so as investment partners entitled to a share of revenue and profits. Anything otherwise is just unjustified grants .

agree in principle. In practice the Ilitches put up as large a proportion of their own money on COPA and LCA as maybe anyone else anywhere in the country has in the last generation of stadia, so it's hard to pick them to knock over it.

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State Rep John Walsh is also interviewed for the  piece and he was one of the biggest proponents of the deal in Lansing.   He was so bad on camera, that at first,  it was hard to figure out if he was still in favor of the deal or not.    There was one amazing spot where like a true politician, Walsh states the real return for the state and city won’t come in dollars but instead will be in hope and a positive outlook for the future.  The interviewer nearly fell out of his chair  

 

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2 hours ago, Hongbit said:

Interesting.  Ilitch Holdings is saying the money came from a specific fund that was set aside for exactly this kind of economic development.    The HBO story spent a good deal of time talking about how this money was supposed to be used for future school infrastructure funding.   Not sure who is right but that point had very large impact on the narrative of the story that was told by Real Sports

I would not say it is the crux of the story, but the story does not sound as good if they cannot say 'what about the kids?!'

Illitch holdings is a corp and can be held liable for false statements in the public (at least I think they can) whoever did the documentary...not sure if they are bound by the same rules or not.

This stinks of an extortion plot...person documenting throws out some crap that they know is false, but in order for Illitch Holdings to PROVE it is false it opens up the books to other things Illitch holdings does not want the public to know....the documentor KNOWS this so does it to moisten the story.  Illitch simply says 'it was from a fund for economic development' and leaves it at that...leaving people to forever wonder and guess.

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FWIW, the rebirth in midtown has come about without any involvement from the Ilitches or their empire.  The areas on Cass and Woodward south of Warren have been going on for 5 years, well before they announced their work.   That's all outside of the scope of their District Detroit...which is nothing more than the arena and some banners they hang from light posts.

I recorded the show and will be watching tonight.  

All they've done is bring Kid Rock and his ****ty beer downtown.  Should have kept that out in Clarkston or where ever he lives.

"State of the art, award winning...."  They say that about every new arena.  It's like little league trophies or car dealerships.  Every car dealership and salesman claims to be "the best ever.... we have these awards as a top dealer from the manufacturer.  Look at my plaque.."

 

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44 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

agree in principle. In practice the Ilitches put up as large a proportion of their own money on COPA and LCA as maybe anyone else anywhere in the country has in the last generation of stadia, so it's hard to pick them to knock over it.

Much different mindset in Canada towards the building of arenas. No public funding - Quebec arena being the exception if you count them as part of Canada. Lucky to get the government to chip in an off-ramp towards the arena or a pedestrian overpass.

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1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

There is at least a 40 year history of hyped-up stadium projects failing to even come close to the inflated projections of economic spinoffs. Corporate welfare. Why would anyone have expected Illitch and the LCA to be any different, tons of people predicted this years ago. If a city or state puts in that much money, they should only do so as investment partners entitled to a share of revenue and profits. Anything otherwise is just unjustified grants .

This is what happens when we allow companies to become 'too big to fail'...same with banks of course.  Thems the rules.

I HIGHLY doubt the people in the Illitch family sit around like Mr Burns trying to figure out a way to screw over a dying city.  I am pretty sure it is just the opposite, but haters gotta hate.

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1 minute ago, Oblong said:

FWIW, the rebirth in midtown has come about without any involvement from the Ilitches or their empire.  The areas on Cass and Woodward south of Warren have been going on for 5 years, well before they announced their work.   That's all outside of the scope of their District Detroit...which is nothing more than the arena and some banners they hang from light posts.

I recorded the show and will be watching tonight.  

All they've done is bring Kid Rock and his ****ty beer downtown.  Should have kept that out in Clarkston or where ever he lives.

"State of the art, award winning...."  They say that about every new arena.  It's like little league trophies or car dealerships.  Every car dealership and salesman claims to be "the best ever.... we have these awards as a top dealer from the manufacturer.  Look at my plaque.."

 

How can you say that?  I am sure you meant to say the District Detroit project and not simply the Illitch family?

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About 6 of the 15 could work in the city limits, but where would you do the rest?  I am not a skier so I have no idea.  Mt Brighton, Alpine Valley, Pine Knob? 

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13 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

How can you say that?  I am sure you meant to say the District Detroit project and not simply the Illitch family?

Uh no.... the "District Detroit" is not really in midtown.  Midtown is the area just south of Wayne State University extending to around MLK blvd.  Ilitch has and had nothing to do with that.  Motor City Brewing, Traffic Jam, Mario's,  Hopcat, Sy Thai,  Jolly Pumpkin, Old Miami,  8 degrees, Selden Standard, Avalon... none of that is due to him or his family.  If anything his hoarding of blighted properties has inhibited growth.  

 

 

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14 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

About 6 of the 15 could work in the city limits, but where would you do the rest?  I am not a skier so I have no idea.  Mt Brighton, Alpine Valley, Pine Knob? 

I wonder if they would consider using the Putt Putt course on Orchard Lake and Grand River to host the US Open.

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2 hours ago, lordstanley said:

There is at least a 40 year history of hyped-up stadium projects failing to even come close to the inflated projections of economic spinoffs. Corporate welfare. Why would anyone have expected Illitch and the LCA to be any different, tons of people predicted this years ago. If a city or state puts in that much money, they should only do so as investment partners entitled to a share of revenue and profits. Anything otherwise is just unjustified grants .

Yup.

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2 minutes ago, Oblong said:

Uh no.... the "District Detroit" is not really in midtown.  Midtown is the area just south of Wayne State University extending to around MLK blvd.  Ilitch has and had nothing to do with that.  Motor City Brewing, Traffic Jam, Mario's,  Hopcat, Sy Thai,  Jolly Pumpkin, Old Miami,  8 degrees, Selden Standard, Avalon... none of that is due to him or his family.  If anything his hoarding of blighted properties has inhibited growth.  

 

 

Uhhh so you discount ANYTHING the Illitchs have downtown as having any affect on businesses in Midtown?  Good talk.

 

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21 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

About 6 of the 15 could work in the city limits, but where would you do the rest?  I am not a skier so I have no idea.  Mt Brighton, Alpine Valley, Pine Knob? 

LOL - we are only about 2500 ft of vertical short! I think the closest Olympic class downhill ski run to Detroit would be Lake Placid NY,

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4 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

Uhhh so you discount ANYTHING the Illitchs have downtown as having any affect on businesses in Midtown?  Good talk.

 

Says the guy who honestly asks if Alpine Valley or Pine Knob could host Olympic skiing events.

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2 minutes ago, Gehringer_2 said:

LOL - we are only about 2500 ft of vertical short! I think the closest Olympic class downhill ski run to Detroit would be Lake Placid NY,

I started thinking about all the events that take place in doors and thought we could do those...and had no idea if the other outdoor events would be possible.  Hence my question.

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I know next to nothing about skiing, yet somehow know this state does not have a peak remotely tall enough to host world class downhill skiing events.  I don't even think we have enough altitude change to host cross country skiing events.

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48 minutes ago, John_Brian_K said:

I would not say it is the crux of the story, but the story does not sound as good if they cannot say 'what about the kids?!'

Illitch holdings is a corp and can be held liable for false statements in the public (at least I think they can) whoever did the documentary...not sure if they are bound by the same rules or not.

This stinks of an extortion plot...person documenting throws out some crap that they know is false, but in order for Illitch Holdings to PROVE it is false it opens up the books to other things Illitch holdings does not want the public to know....the documentor KNOWS this so does it to moisten the story.  Illitch simply says 'it was from a fund for economic development' and leaves it at that...leaving people to forever wonder and guess.

You really should watch the piece before making these kind of conclusions about it.  

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Just now, John_Brian_K said:

I started thinking about all the events that take place in doors and thought we could do those...and had no idea if the other outdoor events would be possible.  Hence my question.

I'd guess  every ski resort that has had an olympics has over 2000' of skiable vertical at the mountain. The ski-bumps around the metro area are only a couple of hundred feet. Boyne is about 450. There is a place in Western PA that is about 700'. But for a real mountain going east  you have to go to Lake Placid, which has over 3000' or Stowe VT is about 2500 IIRC. If you go West, the big resorts in the Rockies (Colorado, Utah, BC) and Sierra's (CA, NV) all have  similar big drops, but are even more work to ski because the base altitudes tend to be much higher. We are strictly flatlanders by comparison.

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