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Round 1, Game 2: Pistons @ Bucks

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22 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Alternatively, they have a guy who is going to be 3rd Team All-NBA, a 25 year old 2X All-Star who is likely going to make more moving forward, a stable/respected head coach, a brand new front office that doesn't own the previous failures, all of their draft picks and no off-the-court issues that embarrassed the franchise.

As far as the playoff opener...come on. You lost to the best team in the NBA on the road, without your best player. **** happens. No one really cares. Orlando just lost by 30 last night too. 

Orlando already beat Toronto, bit of a difference.

They are a .500 team in the weak east even with all those pieces in place and then got humiliated on National TV in Game 1. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

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5 minutes ago, Shelton said:

Yeah, you can look at almost specific draft slot over the years and see a lot of busts, a handful of decent players, and a rare superstar. Sure, drafting higher increases the odds a bit that you will end up with a non-bust. But it’s still largely a crapshoot. It’s not as bad as baseball, but it’s far from a sure thing. 

Building a good team takes years. Building a championship contender takes years and a good deal of luck. You don’t need to be picking in the top three year after year to do it. 

Just about every great team throughout history was built around high draft picks, at least one. There are other ways to build a contender of course but that's the easiest way to build a foundation. Getting high draft picks doesn't guarantee success but it sure helps. 

The Pistons aren't attracting any franchise level free agents so they're either going to have to find some bargain trades (like they did with Billups, Hamilton and Wallace) or get lucky in the draft with mid 1st rounders or in the 2nd and find their Kawhi or Giannis.

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2 hours ago, Casimir said:

This is part of the problem.  It has been mentioned before that:

  • yes, its an injury
  • it cannot get hurt anymore than it already is
  • its just a matter of pain tolerance
  • Griffin wants to play

If that's the case, play him.  Go ahead and reduce his minutes, especially in a blowout (which it likely would have been had he played anyway).  But if he can play without exacerbating the injury, and if he wants to play, play him.

Or are they saving him for the second round?

Or is the injury more than they want to admit to?

Or are they just a rudderless operation right now?

We cannot say with 100 percent certainty that him playing will not further damage the knee. The medical staff can say that, but they do not know 100 percent.

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In the lottery era, exactly one championship has been won by a guy drafted 15th that was the leader of his team.  Nobody else in that slot has won even as the second or third option.  

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11 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

In the lottery era, exactly one championship has been won by a guy drafted 15th that was the leader of his team.  Nobody else in that slot has won even as the second or third option.  

The same handful of teams & players have won championships for the last 20 years. It is obviously hard. 

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52 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Orlando already beat Toronto, bit of a difference.

They are a .500 team in the weak east even with all those pieces in place and then got humiliated on National TV in Game 1. That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

So if the Pistons win a game, they are no longer an embarrassment? 

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Just now, 313DetroitCity said:

The same handful of teams & players have won championships for the last 20 years. It is obviously hard. 

Apparently not if you have a high draft pick.

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4 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

The same handful of teams & players have won championships for the last 20 years. It is obviously hard. 

Look at every championship team in the last 3 decades plus. Built with high draft picks. The only exception is the "Going to work" Pistons which was a perfect storm of everything coming together perfectly.

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6 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Apparently not if you have a high draft pick.

Take a look at the last 10 years of #1 draft picks. 

  • 1 won an NBA title so far in their career (Kyrie)
  • 3 were outright busts (Fultz, Bennett, Wiggins)
  • 4 never lead their teams to the NBA Finals (Griffin, Rose, Wall, AD)
  • 2 are unlikely to ever lead their team a NBA final (Ayton & Simmons)

So yeah, I'd say it is pretty hard. 

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Just now, 313DetroitCity said:

Take a look at the last 10 years of #1 draft picks. 

  • 1 won an NBA title so far in their career (Kyrie)
  • 3 were outright busts (Fultz, Bennett, Wiggins)
  • 4 never lead their teams to the NBA Finals (Griffin, Rose, Wall, AD)
  • 2 are unlikely to ever lead their team a NBA final (Ayton & KAT)

So yeah, I'd say it is pretty hard. 

Who was winning those titles the last 10 years?  High draft picks.

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Just now, Deleterious said:

Who was winning those titles the last 10 years?  High draft picks.

Right...but it is the same handful of high draft picks. The majority of high draft picks are not seeing the finals. In fact, a good percentage aren't even seeing the conference finals. 

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1 minute ago, 313DetroitCity said:

I mean...ask yourself why the same group of teams are generally in the draft lottery. 

Poor management.

But if you can't win with multiple high picks, you aren't winning by picking at 15.  

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Just now, Deleterious said:

Poor management.

But if you can't win with multiple high picks, you aren't winning by picking at 15.  

Poor management...or the fact that drafting is hard business? 

But in this case, the Pistons have new management. Their draft record is basically nonexistent. 

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29 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Poor management...or the fact that drafting is hard business? 

But in this case, the Pistons have new management. Their draft record is basically nonexistent. 

Or this is a league where only one team a year wins. Even the best management and strategies will produce a lot of losers in that situation.

So study the successful teams and see what they have in common. High draft picks.

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31 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Right...but it is the same handful of high draft picks. The majority of high draft picks are not seeing the finals. In fact, a good percentage aren't even seeing the conference finals. 

Lets go through history since the 80s.  

Lakers - Magic #1 overall, Worthy #1 overall, Scott 4th overall

Celtics - McHale 3rd overall, Bird 6th overall, Parish 8th overall

Pistons - Isiah 2nd overall

Bulls - Jordan 3rd overall, Pippen 5th overall

Rockets - Hakeem #1 overall

Spurs - Duncan #1 overall, Robinson #1 overall

Lakers - An exception but Kobe at 13 is a fluke, getting a #1 overall in Shaq was a gift

Pistons - Trader Joe did the work. An exception

Heat - Wade 5th overall which attracted #1 overall LeBron to sign there

Cavs - Lebron #1 overall, Kyrie #1 overall

The Warriors had exceptional drafting getting Curry, Thompson and Green where they got them.

Long story short, high draft picks aren't the only way to build a championship team but they really REALLY help. The goal is to build a Championship team, right?

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1 hour ago, NYLion said:

Lets go through history since the 80s.  

Lakers - Magic #1 overall, Worthy #1 overall, Scott 4th overall

Celtics - McHale 3rd overall, Bird 6th overall, Parish 8th overall

Pistons - Isiah 2nd overall

Bulls - Jordan 3rd overall, Pippen 5th overall

Rockets - Hakeem #1 overall

Spurs - Duncan #1 overall, Robinson #1 overall

Lakers - An exception but Kobe at 13 is a fluke, getting a #1 overall in Shaq was a gift

Pistons - Trader Joe did the work. An exception

Heat - Wade 5th overall which attracted #1 overall LeBron to sign there

Cavs - Lebron #1 overall, Kyrie #1 overall

The Warriors had exceptional drafting getting Curry, Thompson and Green where they got them.

Long story short, high draft picks aren't the only way to build a championship team but they really REALLY help. The goal is to build a Championship team, right?

we had the 2nd overall in 2003. He should just about be finishing his HOF career right now, right?

 

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

He should have been Wade or Carmello, so, yeah? 

All those Melo rings we missed out on

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Just so I am clear, the argument is because some top picks didn't pan out and/or have not won championships, we shouldn't want top picks?

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14 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Just so I am clear, the argument is because some top picks didn't pan out and/or have not won championships, we shouldn't want top picks?

The argument is that there are ways to improve without top picks, and that top picks don't guarantee you titles (as evidenced by the track record of the #1 picks over the last 10 years). 

Success in the NBA over the last 20 years has largely been limited to Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, Curry. If you didn't have them, you weren't winning. So this idea that tanking is just an easy process to win is a fantasy. It largely fails.

While it is true that most championship teams have top 3 draft picks, it is also true that vast majority of top 3 draft picks won't get you championships.

So let's take a deep breath and realize that the Pistons aren't a "side show" because they haven't won in a while. They haven't had real controversy, they have a respected coach, what appears to be a respected front office, all their draft picks and contracts that will be expiring soon. We aren't going to be Golden State any time soon. It's time to accept it, and just hope for a good team that can compete in the EC Playoffs. Crying incessantly about how we didn't tank like Philly won't change reality. And acting as if the current front office is the same as the past front office is just being intellectually dishonest. To expect Stefanski to come in and deal our first actual star player since Billups wasn't going to happen. There are actual business and marketing concerns organizations have because they exist to make money. 

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4 hours ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

He should have been Wade or Carmello, so, yeah? 

I'll go out on a limb and say Bosh would have been a better fit for that team. Chances are they don't trade for Rasheed and use those assets to improve the bench. They could've freed up the cash for Rasheed to sign Okur or other bench pieces. I seem to recall the weakness of that team was the bench after McDyess. 

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