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Game 82: Pistons @ Knicks

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Anyone listen to Dan Patrick live or his podcast?  Early in hour 1 of today he mentioned Dan Gilbert trying to come up with a way in the past to swap ownership of the Cavs for the Pistons.  Not sure if this was while or before Gores was owner.

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9 minutes ago, Casimir said:

Anyone listen to Dan Patrick live or his podcast?  Early in hour 1 of today he mentioned Dan Gilbert trying to come up with a way in the past to swap ownership of the Cavs for the Pistons.  Not sure if this was while or before Gores was owner.

This has long been a rumor Patrick has spread.

Quote

LeBron James reportedly tried to get the Cavaliers and Pistons to swap ownership before he re-joined the Cavs in 2014.

Referencing a source with “firsthand” knowledge of the situation, Dan Patrick revealed that LeBron proposed an ownership swap because he didn’t want to play for Dan Gilbert.

 

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17 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Yep, pretty much. 

He got his shiny new arena so he's content as long as attendance numbers remain somewhat decent.

Well, attendance has been bad. And if he didn't know, he certainly knows now that winning is what will get fans to LCA. 

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Maybe I'm giving Gores too much credit.  But I find it hard to believe a self made billionaire is afraid of hard work.  

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Just now, Deleterious said:

Maybe I'm giving Gores too much credit.  But I find it hard to believe a self made billionaire is afraid of hard work.  

Agreed. If you start with nothing, you don't make it in the construction and real estate game without working your butt off. 

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Just now, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

But is he disciplined enough to spend 4 or 5 years building a core -> develop to an honest to goodness good team?

It isn't his job to build the core. He hires the guys to do that. And the first time around, SVG did try to build a young core with Drummond/Jackson/KCP.

It failed. 

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22 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Maybe I'm giving Gores too much credit.  But I find it hard to believe a self made billionaire is afraid of hard work.  

I think the better way to express my sentiments is that he developed expertise in a specific field, which undoubtably took hard work, but hubris makes him think he can been similarly successful in other milieu without a similar investment in time and effort.  He thinks he can just farm that bit out to the front office.

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8 minutes ago, 313DetroitCity said:

It isn't his job to build the core. He hires the guys to do that. And the first time around, SVG did try to build a young core with Drummond/Jackson/KCP.

It failed. 

Correct, which means you have to be willing to accept that failure and start the process over again.  You don't double down on a Griffin acquisition.

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Just now, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

I think the better way to express my sentiments is that he developed expertise in a specific field, which undoubtably took hard work, and hubris makes him think he can been similarly successful in other milieu without a similar investment in time and effort.

Just about every owner in the NBA (with the exception of MJ) made their money doing other things they were experts at. I don't think any of them won titles in their first 10 years. 

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And I'd guess most -> all would tell you that owning a sports franchise involved a number of things they had no knowledge about or appreciation for when they acquired their team.

The question is whether Gores is passionate enough about the team to learn the lessons that need to be learned.

The fact he made a bunch of money or other guys struggled initially given the moves the team have made (e.g. Griffin trade) do not give me confidence that he is on his way to being an objectively good owner.

But people obviously change over time and it certainly is possible I am reading things wrong.

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I just don’t know if blaming Gores is exactly correct. In hindsight, sure, hiring SVG and giving him all that power was a poor decision. But at the same time, he did fire SVG last year after that didn’t work. Not exactly William clay ford. 

I think the new front office has done a good job given what they walked into. Trading Stanley and Bullock were good moves for where the team was. 

We’ll see what they do over the next year. I think the best approach is to trade away what they can (without giving up a good young player or first round pick just to get out of a contract). Blake might be a trade chip, but probably not because the contract is hard to move. Drummond could be an option. Reggie could be tradeable this offseason. If deals are there, they should make them. If not, riding it out another year and letting contracts come off the books would be fine. 

Then we will be in for a good tank and maybe in five years we have something to happy about. 

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I don't know if Gores will ever get it right. But he fired Van Gundy after most people thought he wouldn't. And totally revamped the front office with a bunch of smart and highly thought of guys(Rose, Gupta, Gelfand, Grgurich). They made some very shrewd deals at the deadline that weakened them at the wing positions and got a few assets. 

The only way out of this is to not add more bad deals to your payroll. They didn't do that. There isn't a tanking move once you acquire Blake Griffin. You need to churn the middle and bottom off the roster while some of your big contracts cycle off the books. The front office has impressed me and they have talked Gores out of making horrible deals like Mike Conley. 

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If you ever wanted to understand how bad SVG was.  Just look at people giving current management credit for trading SJ and Bullock at t he deadline.  

Trading guys at the deadline you A)Dont want to sign or B)Cant afford to sign is standard.  It shows you have a pulse, not competency.  

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If Gores let himself be talked into Griffin by SVG to then fire SVG 3 or 4 months later, man, I just don't know.  At a minimum I'd suggest he hadn't learned much as a owner after however many years it has been.

OTOH, if the thought is SVG didn't want to talk Gores out of Griffin (or simply couldn't), but he is willing to listen to his staff now, not sure what I make of that.

We'll know in 3 years or something.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

If Gores let himself be talked into Smith by Dumars to then fire Dumars 8 or 10 months later, man, I don't know.

OTOH, if the thought is SVG didn't want to talk Gores out of Griffin (or simply couldn't), not sure what I make of that.

We'll know in 3 years or something.

I see a pattern.

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1 minute ago, Deleterious said:

If you ever wanted to understand how bad SVG was.  Just look at people giving current management credit for trading SJ and Bullock at t he deadline.  

Trading guys at the deadline you A)Dont want to sign or B)Cant afford to sign is standard.  It shows you have a pulse, not competency.  

Trading Bullock at the deadline when you have a team goal of making the playoffs is ballsy. And it shows faith in your front office to believe you can replace him off the buyout market without taking a hit. I give them credit for that.

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1 minute ago, 313DetroitCity said:

Trading Bullock at the deadline when you have a team goal of making the playoffs is ballsy. And it shows faith in your front office to believe you can replace him off the buyout market without taking a hit. I give them credit for that.

Or it shows just how much Pistons fans overvalue Bullock.  

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Or possibly the front office doesn't truly care that much about the play-offs despite lip service to the contrary.

Make it fine, just miss, fine.  We are just holding serve until contracts come off the books, and we will rebuild this thing right then.

 

Truth be told, this is my hope.

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14 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Or it shows just how much Pistons fans overvalue Bullock.  

We were a team without shooters and we traded our best shooter. To do that and still expect to make the playoffs is risky. But they had faith they could find an equal replacement and they did.

I understand this front office hasn't done anything amazing, but let's give them credit for the small moves they have made to at least show a base level of competence. 

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12 minutes ago, Mr. Bigglesworth said:

Or possibly the front office doesn't truly care that much about the play-offs despite lip service to the contrary.

Make it fine, just miss, fine.  We are just holding serve until contracts come off the books, and we will rebuild this thing right then.

 

Truth be told, this is my hope.

I think its clear that Gores cares. And if your boss cares and is evaluating you, I think you have to care as well. 

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All this talk about the bad trades SVG made but it's the drafting that killed them and giving away the good draft picks like Middleton and Dinwiddie.  Even with all the trades and signings, if they had drafted just about anybody directly picked after Johnson and Mitchell over Kennard (which was the rumored 2 they were down to), this team looks completely different. Look no further than the drafting failure for the reason why the Pistons are stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future

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3 minutes ago, NYLion said:

All this talk about the bad trades SVG made but it's the drafting that killed them and giving away the good draft picks like Middleton and Dinwiddie.  Even with all the trades and signings, if they had drafted just about anybody directly picked after Johnson and Mitchell over Kennard (which was the rumored 2 they were down to), this team looks completely different. Look no further than the drafting failure for the reason why the Pistons are stuck in mediocrity for the foreseeable future

Or this front office hits on the 15th pick (where Giannis & Kawhi were drafted) and things change completely. 

But yeah, nothing can happen to fix this team. Stuck forever. 

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We'll learn a lot from their draft process. SVG drafted Johnson and Ellenson because they had one good skill I guess. I want to see what kind of skills they value in the guy they take this year. It can't possibly be worse.

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