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It would serve them right to accidentally go back to 1910 style baseball when 5 HR was a ton for any one ma

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9 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

Unfortunately .. does not appear to be any worth-the-money FA first baseman available after this season .. unless the Blue Jays fail to resign Justin Smoak and Tigers could get him at something like 4yr/$40m.  That could secure the Tigers first base weakness until they can draft and then develop one on the farms.

They could have him for a lot less than that.  I doubt he gets more than one year.  

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37 minutes ago, tiger337 said:

They could have him for a lot less than that.

I was thinking the same thing.  Not sure why I suggested 4yr/$40m.  

I based $10/yr solely on his $8m salary this year.  He may sign for as little as 1 year $5m .. and might be willing to sign 4yr/$16m.  Not sure I'd even want him for 4 years.  One year at a time would be best.

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The last couple of pages have proven that, when we set out minds to it, we can collaborate on compiling a roster for 2020 that is going to stink every bit as badly as the 2019 version.

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1 hour ago, Gehringer_2 said:

 Reminds me of the year that Toledo started the season with Moya, Dirks and Collings in the OF and it seemed like the Tigers had to score at least one MLB  LH hitting OF, and then none of them made it. (so I should know better by now.....)

Many of us are old enough to remember when Biggs was a promising young prospect so we know the folly of high expectations.

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34 minutes ago, Charles Liston said:

The last couple of pages have proven that, when we set out minds to it, we can collaborate on compiling a roster for 2020 that is going to stink every bit as badly as the 2019 version.

I am not expecting the Tigers to be as bad next year as this year.  A lot of things went woefully wrong for the Tigers this year ..most notably the injuries early on to starting pitchers Mike Fulmer, Matt Moore, and Tyler Ross ..also early injuries of various lengths to expected starting positional players Josh Harrison, Jordy Mercer, and Jacoby Jones.  Nearly every Tiger suffered some sort of injury this year ..including additional injury (knee) to Miguel Cabrera ..as well as continued nagging injuries to Suckdan Zimmerman.  

Couple all the injuries with less than expected production from Nick Castellanos while he was here ..and the total suck of Mikie Mahtook, Bobby Wilson, Jamier Candelario, ..and less than expected productivity from Christian Stewart and Miguel Cabrera (among others.) 

Everybody knew before season started that the Tigers were going to be bad ..but injuries and less-than-expected production made them much much worse.  They basically took a bad team and patched it together with even worse talent overall.

Barring a miracle ..next year should be quite bad too ..but likely not as bad as this year.  

 

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1 hour ago, Lei Pong said:

It would serve them right to accidentally go back to 1910 style baseball when 5 HR was a ton for any one ma

5 is a lot for anyone's ma.

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21 minutes ago, Tigrrfan said:

I am not expecting the Tigers to be as bad next year as this year.  A lot of things went woefully wrong for the Tigers this year ..most notably the injuries early on to starting pitchers Mike Fulmer, Matt Moore, and Tyler Ross ..also early injuries of various lengths to expected starting positional players Josh Harrison, Jordy Mercer, and Jacoby Jones.  Nearly every Tiger suffered some sort of injury this year ..including additional injury (knee) to Miguel Cabrera ..as well as continued nagging injuries to Suckdan Zimmerman.  

Couple all the injuries with less than expected production from Nick Castellanos while he was here ..and the total suck of Mikie Mahtook, Bobby Wilson, Jamier Candelario, ..and less than expected productivity from Christian Stewart and Miguel Cabrera (among others.) 

Everybody knew before season started that the Tigers were going to be bad ..but injuries and less-than-expected production made them much much worse.  They basically took a bad team and patched it together with even worse talent overall.

Barring a miracle ..next year should be quite bad too ..but likely not as bad as this year.  

 

Yeah this year was about the worst case scenario, aside from Turnbull's hot start basically everything that could've gone wrong went wrong and every guy was worse than you could've reasonably expected or hoped for.

Things weren't a whole lot better in the minors either, so sure Manning took a step forward and Mize looked great before being shutdown but aside from Skubal we really didn't have any guys really breakout which isn't good.  When you're in our position you need more than 1 breakout minor leaguer particularly if that player is a pitcher and you need bats. 

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10 hours ago, Casimir said:

I suspect there won't be much movement among the position players.

DH - Cabrera.  Easy enough, as long as he is healthy.

C - Greiner, Hicks.   I don't believe that Greiner has turned a corner with his bat, but I would guess that his overall game is preferable as a starter over Hicks.  Rogers is simply overmatched right now.

IF - Candelario, CastroH, Lugo, CastroW, Goodrum.  I think its possible that CastroW might start out in Toledo if he looks rough in spring.  Otherwise that's the starting infield going around the horn and I think its highly likely that playing time is spread around pretty evenly.  I'd bet its Candelario's last chance, but there isn't much in the minors to push him, so who knows.

OF - Stewart, Reyes, Jones, Demeritte.  This might be similar to the infield with Reyes moving around the 3 spots and a 4 for 3 time share.  Stewart allegedly has the power, Reyes has put the bat on the ball, Jones has the glove, Demeritte is supposed to be a blend of speed  and some power.  I doubt Cameron makes the club regardless of what happens in spring training.

That's 12 position players with room for 1 more.  Rodriguez?  Dixon?  I don't mind the idea of bringing Mercer back, or bringing in a veteran bat (or 4).  But I can see the Tigers standing pat with the above and letting the roster play itself out to determine who might be a part of the team in 2021.

Paredes should be in Detroit playing somewhere in the infield next year. His Zips projection for 2020 is 1.8 WAR. I doubt many, if any, of the infielders you mentioned will match that. I'd especially like to see Paredes over Lugo next year. 

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If the Tigers OF lineup is unchanged, then I assume that means Daz and Robson spend another year in Toledo, and Hill, Azocar, Gibson spend another year in Erie, and so on down the line.

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And then you've got to find a place for Stokes, whose stat line looks a lot like the the other guys I mentioned.  I suppose Gibson is the odd man out, since he's 25 and the rest of the bunch is 23 (Robson is 24).

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31 minutes ago, apabruce said:

If the Tigers OF lineup is unchanged, then I assume that means Daz and Robson spend another year in Toledo, and Hill, Azocar, Gibson spend another year in Erie, and so on down the line.

Robson will get passed up.  I doubt they keep Hill and Azocar in Erie for that reason.  If anything, they'll flip them, and put Woodrow and Robson in AA.

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13 hours ago, Casimir said:

I suspect there won't be much movement among the position players.

DH - Cabrera.  Easy enough, as long as he is healthy.

C - Greiner, Hicks.   I don't believe that Greiner has turned a corner with his bat, but I would guess that his overall game is preferable as a starter over Hicks.  Rogers is simply overmatched right now.

IF - Candelario, CastroH, Lugo, CastroW, Goodrum.  I think its possible that CastroW might start out in Toledo if he looks rough in spring.  Otherwise that's the starting infield going around the horn and I think its highly likely that playing time is spread around pretty evenly.  I'd bet its Candelario's last chance, but there isn't much in the minors to push him, so who knows.

OF - Stewart, Reyes, Jones, Demeritte.  This might be similar to the infield with Reyes moving around the 3 spots and a 4 for 3 time share.  Stewart allegedly has the power, Reyes has put the bat on the ball, Jones has the glove, Demeritte is supposed to be a blend of speed  and some power.  I doubt Cameron makes the club regardless of what happens in spring training.

That's 12 position players with room for 1 more.  Rodriguez?  Dixon?  I don't mind the idea of bringing Mercer back, or bringing in a veteran bat (or 4).  But I can see the Tigers standing pat with the above and letting the roster play itself out to determine who might be a part of the team in 2021.

This list make sense but shouldn't the Tigers Brass know by now if these players are any good ? They watched them in the minors and over the past two years at the major League level for many. Do we really have to delay moving forward looking at all these players another year ?

I mean many don't know the strike zone and others can't field a position or both. Aren't we spinning our wheels ? We're going to end up burning good pitchers service time pitching in front of AAAA players. Do we need to see more or Dixon, Rodriguez, Candelerio, Lugo , Demeritte ,Castro W  and Stewart ? All are one trick ponies. Fold this deck and deal again.

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13 hours ago, SeattleMike said:

Paredes should be in Detroit playing somewhere in the infield next year. His Zips projection for 2020 is 1.8 WAR. I doubt many, if any, of the infielders you mentioned will match that. I'd especially like to see Paredes over Lugo next year. 

I think Paredes starts the season in Toledo.  I agree that there isn't much of a hurdle in front of him at 3B, but why burn service time next season when the Tigers are likely to be bad still?

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9 hours ago, socaltiger said:

This list make sense but shouldn't the Tigers Brass know by now if these players are any good ? They watched them in the minors and over the past two years at the major League level for many. Do we really have to delay moving forward looking at all these players another year ?

I mean many don't know the strike zone and others can't field a position or both. Aren't we spinning our wheels ? We're going to end up burning good pitchers service time pitching in front of AAAA players. Do we need to see more or Dixon, Rodriguez, Candelerio, Lugo , Demeritte ,Castro W  and Stewart ? All are one trick ponies. Fold this deck and deal again.

Dixon and Rodriguez are simply filler at this point.  Neither are long term pieces.

Candelario and Stewart are going to be given next season, at least the beginning, to show something.  I think Candelario's grace period might be next season, maybe less than that.

I doubt there's much hope for Lugo, but there's no harm in giving him time to see.

Demeritte has shown speed and power in the minors and is only 24 with all of 160 PAs in his MLB career.  I think the Tigers can afford to to give him playing time see what he can do.

CastroW is all of 22 years old and has all of 77 PAs in MLB.   I think the Tigers can afford to to give him playing time see what he can do.

The other thing is what good pitchers are going to burn service time next season?

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Just to kind of expand on the above, I think the Tigers are banking on pitching being the strength of the next playoff window and that a bulk of that will come through the farm system.  I think they are probably looking at getting at least 3 of Manning / Mize / Skubal / Wentz to be in that rotation.  Maybe Boyd is still around then, maybe the whole quarter makes it (wow, wouldn't that be something), maybe Fulmer is back and healthy, maybe they'll need to add another arm.  But I think they are looking for those guys to start out in Toledo next season, get some call ups along the way, and hopefully they are reasonably ready for Detroit in 2021 with playoff contention in 2022.

As far as the position players are concerned, I think they are going to try to mix and match and piece a lineup together via the farm and free agency.  I think the window for that trial and error is open now.  The younger guys aren't due to hit free agency until at earliest 2024.  Parades and Greene will be along by then (the good Lord willing).  If they can scratch a couple of other positions out of what is around today (say an IF, an OF, and another position player), that's 5 hitters to start with that are under club control.  Sign a big bat, sign two players to a platoon, and that's 7 hitters in a daily lineup.  Plus we can still look forward to Cabrera's contract in the lineup.

That's kind of how I think I am seeing the Tigers' plan for the future.

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10 hours ago, socaltiger said:

This list make sense but shouldn't the Tigers Brass know by now if these players are any good ? They watched them in the minors and over the past two years at the major League level for many. Do we really have to delay moving forward looking at all these players another year ?

I mean many don't know the strike zone and others can't field a position or both. Aren't we spinning our wheels ? We're going to end up burning good pitchers service time pitching in front of AAAA players. Do we need to see more or Dixon, Rodriguez, Candelerio, Lugo , Demeritte ,Castro W  and Stewart ? All are one trick ponies. Fold this deck and deal again.

I think you should expect players to struggle their first year or two in the bigs, it's part of development. 

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11 hours ago, Chili Mac Davis said:

Plenty of other teams would want Mercer.

I don't think other teams want a player who hits for a .700 OPS most years and is no longer a strong defender.  Maybe , he gets a spring training invite as insurance, but I don't see other teams giving him a guaranteed major league contract.  Maybe there is another crap team like the Tigers that signs him, but not plenty of teams.  

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11 hours ago, Chili Mac Davis said:

Plenty of other teams would want Mercer.

I guess we will see about that.

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